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You falsely stated that we can not determine if the language in Revelation 6:12-17 refers to May 21 or October 21 in 2011. Except for the statement about the great earthquake, these verses almost appear to be a direct quote from Matthew 24:29. However, Matthew 24:29 gives us some time information as to when these events in Rev 6:12-17 take place. We read that they take place immediately after the tribulation.

The great earthquake and the other events spoken of in Revelation 6:12-17 happen immediately after the tribulation. The day immediately after the tribulation is May 21, 2011. This is the first day of the Day of Judgment. It is the first day of the five months of torment spoken of in Revelation chapter nine. The elect are not to experience this torment. Beyond a shadow of a doubt, the rapture will take place on May 21, 2011.

If you ever come across anything in the Bible which would suggest that the first day of the Day of Judgment is any other day than May 21, 2011, please be kind enough to let me know,



I would like to address your last point first.


You said “If you ever come across anything in the Bible which would suggest that the first day of the Day of Judgment is any other day than May 21, 2011, please be kind enough to let me know,”


The purpose of the study “When is the Rapture?” is to examine whether the Bible teaches that the Rapture will be on May 21, 2011 or on October 21, 2011. Judgment has already begun in the house of God (1 Peter 4:17). Judgment already began in 1988 with the end of the church age. We are already in the time of judgment.


Regarding the Biblical arguments for the Rapture occurring after the 5 months, on October 21, 2011, a number of them have been developed in that study:


1. The 5 months is the 5th trumpet, yet the Rapture is the last or 7th trumpet.


2. God has tied the 5th to 7th trumpets to the 1st to 3rd woes and has put careful language showing that the 3 woes are chronological events, which sets the 7th trumpet and Rapture after the 5 months which is the 5th trumpet / 1st woe.


3. In Revelation 11:12-15, God talks about the Rapture at the 7th trumpet / 3rd woe, which is after the 5th trumpet / 1st woe, the 5 months.


4. God has defined the term “last day” to identify with when the true believers come to Christ and with the Rapture and the last day of the Feast of Tabernacles in which the true believers are sent home. This date is October 21, 2011.


5. God says to the scorpions on the earth not to harm the true believers. That word “say” is always used to indicate a real possibility.


These are some of the arguments for the Rapture occurring on October 21, 2011 that are developed in the study “When is the Rapture?”. 


I am happy to have a discussion with you about whether the Bible teaches that the Rapture will be on May 21, 2011 or October 21, 2011, but for a balanced discussion, please show from the Bible where these arguments are defective. These arguments are well developed in the study “When is the Rapture?” and together they provide a strong case for the Rapture occurring on October 21, 2011.



Regarding Matthew 24:29-31, we can only be certain that the word “immediately” applies to verse 29. In verse 30, God starts out with the word “then” which means that the events in verses 30 & 31 could be a little later.



You mentioned that Revelation 6:12-13 is almost a quotation of Matthew 24:29.


We can quickly read Matthew 24:29 and compare it to Revelation 6:12-13 and conclude that the “immediately” of Matthew 24:29 also applies to Revelation 6:12-17.



However, we have to read the Bible carefully. When we compare these two passages, there are some key differences. Revelation 6:12-14 is not a quotation of Matthew 24:29.



It is very significant that Matthew 24:29-31 and Revelation 9:1-12 do not mention an earthquake, yet Revelation 6:12 mentions an earthquake.



Revelation 6:12 ties into Revelation 11:12-14 which talks about an earthquake and the Rapture.


However, Revelation 11:12-14 is talking about the 6th & 7th trumpets. God has given clear language that the 6th & 7th trumpets and this earthquake are after the 5th trumpet, the 5 months. That is on October 21, 2011.



The fact that Revelation 6:12-15 adds the earthquake and how God ties that into Revelation 11:13 is very important and we cannot ignore it.



Also, Revelation 6:12-15 has different language than Matthew 24:29. It is not a quotation.


For example in Matthew 24:29 God says about the sun that “shall the sun be darkened”, but in Revelation 6:12 God says “sun became black as sackcloth of hair”. These statements sound similar but they are different.


In Matthew 24:29 the sun is being “darkened”, but when we get to Revelation 6:12 the sun is now black, and not only black, but “black as sackcloth of hair”.


This difference in language fits perfectly with Matthew 24:29 pointing to May 21, 2011 and Revelation 6:12-17 pointing to October 21. 2011.


On May 21, 2011 the door of salvation is closed. The light of the gospel is now “darkened”. There is no more salvation.


However, on October 21, 2011, when the believers are raptured, the sun is now “black as sackcloth of hair”. It is completely black. Now every true believer is gone and everyone knows that Judgment Day has come and there is no more salvation.



Regarding the moon, we read in Matthew 24:29 that “moon shall not give her light”. The moon refers to the law of God which also points man to the light of the Gospel. But on May 21, 2011 the light of the Gospel is gone because there is no more salvation. That is why the law of God, the Bible, called the moon “shall not give her light”.


However, in Revelation 6:12 God says something different regarding the moon. God says “the moon became as blood”. That is different language. Blood refers to vengeance. On October 21, 2011 with the Rapture of the believers and the 6th and 7th trumpets, the unsaved go directly into judgment as we read about in Revelation 11:13-18.



Both Matthew 24:29 and Revelation 6:13 talk about the stars of heaven falling. These represent the corporate people of God who thought they were saved and had exalted themselves as the “stars” of heaven, but they shall be brought down. This theme is talked about in the book of Obadiah and in other places.


The stars of heaven falling refers to both May 21, 2011 and October 21, 2011. The unsaved corporate people of God will be fallen throughout the whole 5 months and after that. This phrase does not help us identify May 21, 2011 or October 21, 2011.



In Matthew 24:29 God says “powers of the heavens shall be shaken”. This is one statement. However, in Revelation 6:13 God makes a stronger statement, “And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.”


The statement of Revelation 6:13 is much bigger. Not only are the powers of heaven shaken, in Revelation 6:13, heaven itself, “departed as a scroll when it is rolled together”.



So, the language of Revelation 6:12-13 is different and stronger than Matthew 24:29. One is in no way a quotation of the other. Also, the reference to the earthquake in Revelation 6:12 is significant. When we put this together with Revelation 11:12-17, we have a strong indication that while Matthew 24:29 is talking about May 21, 2011, when we get to Revelation 6:12-17, God is talking about October 21, 2011 and the Rapture.



Examining these passages more closely shows that we do have Biblical direction that points Revelation 6:12-17 as referring to October 21, 2011 and the time of the Rapture. 



Two verses can be written in a similar way, but be pointing to different truths and different times. For example, consider these two verses that talk about adding to the word of God:


Deuteronomy 4:2  Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.


Revelation 22:18-19:

18  For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

19  And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.



Deuteronomy 4:2 and Revelation 22:18-19 are both talking about not adding or taking away from the Word of God.


Sometimes, people read these 2 passages and conclude that they are basically saying the same thing. Someone who speaks in tongues or wants to receive dreams or visions from God will say that Revelation 22:18-19 does not end the possibility of receiving a message from God, because the same commandment was given in Deuteronomy 4:2.


However, there are differences between these two passages.


Deuteronomy 4:2 is talking about adding or subtracting from the Word that God has commanded mankind. The people could not take a message received from another source and add that to the commandments given by God. Also, they could not delete something from what God had commanded them. However, after Deuteronomy 4:2, God continued to add more Word of God for about 1,500 years more.


However, when we get to Revelation 22:18-19, God now talks about this “book”. This “book” is the Bible. In Revelation 22:18-19 God is now talking about the book, the Bible, that He finished writing in about 95 AD with the book of Revelation. The book is now complete. The Word of God is now complete.


Revelation 22:18-19 gives a different message than did Deuteronomy 4:2. Revelation 22:18 tells us that there is now a completed book that God has written and there is not to be any addition to that book, which is the Bible. So, effectively, Revelation 22:18-19 ends any possibility for man to receive a message from God.


We see by introducing one new word, “book”, God significantly alters the meaning of the verse.



So, we cannot ignore the differences in the language of Matthew 24:29 and Revelation 6:12-15 and just blend them together in our minds as talking about the exact same day. We have to examine each verse very carefully and when we do, we learn that Matthew 24:29 points to May 21, 2011, yet Revelation 6:12-17 points to October 21, 2011.




You made the statement regarding May 21, 2011 that “It is the first day of the five months of torment spoken of in Revelation chapter nine. The elect are not to experience this torment.”


We know that God defines words by how He uses them in the Bible and if we want to understand what a verse means we must follow the rule of 1 Corinthians 2:13 to compare Scripture with Scripture.


In the last email we examined Revelation 9:5. When we study that verse by seeing how God uses the words in that verse in other parts of the Bible, we find that Revelation 9:5 is not teaching that the “torment” or conscious affliction that the unsaved will endure during those 5 months has to be any greater than that suffered by Lot when he saw all the of sin in Sodom (2 Peter 2:8).



Many people are reading Revelation 9:4-6 and building stories of great pain and suffering from those verses. However, we cannot find truth that way. We have to compare Scripture with Scripture. When we follow that rule, we learn that Revelation 9:4-6 does not have to indicate a time of great and horrible suffering for the unsaved.



Also, Revelation 9:4 teaches that God tells the locusts that they cannot hurt the true believers during that 5 months. So, the true believers here will be protected during that time anyway.



You can say that beyond the shadow of a doubt that the Rapture will happen on May 21, 2011, but as shown in the previous emails and studies, the Bible gives a lot of arguments for the Rapture being on October 21, 2011. When we study Revelation 9:4-6, comparing Scripture with Scripture, we learn that there is nothing in those verses that indicates that the true believers are raptured to avoid the 5 months. In fact, verse 4 indicates that the true believers will be in the world under the protection of God at that time.



Thanks for responding to me. This way, I learn what people are thinking about this study.