FEEDBACK: WILL THE RAPTURE BE ON OCTOBER 21, 2011?
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Below IS A QUESTION about REVELATION 9 AND WHEN IS THE RAPTURE?
THE READER’S QUESTION IS IN ITALICS. OUR RESPONSE FOLLOWS.
You falsely insinuated that we are already in the Day of Judgment. Although the world has been under judgment since the original sin, God has appointed a period of time in which he will execute his full wrath upon the human race. This period of time consists of five months that the Bible refers to as the Day of Judgment.
This period of five months begins immediately after the tribulation. Christ referred to this time period in Mark 13:24. He also spoke of these days in Luke 23:28-30. We have learned from the Biblical Calendar that this five month Day of Judgment locks solidly between May 21, and October 21, 2011. Because the elect are not to endure the wrath of God, we can be certain that they will be raptured on May 21, 2011.
Your idea that the torment in the Day of Judgment will not be any more severe than what believers experience every day as they interact with the unsaved is simply ridiculous. Your theory that there are five months between Matthew verses 29 and 30 is preposterous. It is not profitable for me to entertain this type of nonsense any longer!
If you ever come across anything in the Bible which would indicate that the Day of Judgment begins on any other day than May 21, 2011, please be kind enough to let me know.
I do not believe we are already in the Day of Judgment or Judgment Day. I believe that the Great Tribulation started in 1988 and that is a time when judgment has fallen upon all of the corporate people of God. Judgment begins in the house of God (1 Peter 4:17). So, I believe we are in a time of judgment, but we are not yet to the Day of Judgment.
Let’s look at the two passages that you mentioned.
You mentioned Mark 13:24. Let’s look at verses 24-27:
24 ¶ But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,
25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.
26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.
This passage is similar to Matthew 24:29-31. The language “the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light” in verse 24 indicates that there is no more possibility of salvation.
As discussed in the previous email, Mark 13:25 is pointing to the fallen state of the unsaved corporate people of God. There is nothing in these two verses, Mark 13:24-25, that speak about the unsaved suffering the full wrath of God as in the Day of Judgment. These verses talk about the termination of the Gospel and the fallen state of God’s corporate people.
You stated that Mark 13:24 refers to the Day of Judgment in which the unsaved will experience the full wrath of God. However, there is nothing about the Day of Judgment in Mark 13:24. This verse is talking about the termination of the Gospel of salvation. There will be no more light of the Gospel.
Notice that Mark 13:26 begins with the word “then”. The next verse, verse 27 also begins with this same Greek word “then”. This is a very important word in this passage. We will examine this Greek word shortly.
You also mentioned Luke 23:28-30 where we read:
28 But Jesus turning unto
them said, Daughters of
29 For, behold, the days are coming, in the which they shall say, Blessed are the barren, and the wombs that never bare, and the paps which never gave suck.
30 Then shall they begin to say to the mountains, Fall on us; and to the hills, Cover us.
Verses 28-29 have to do with God no longer saving within His corporate people when the Holy Spirit has been taken away.
In verse 30, we see the word “then”. This is the same Greek word “then” that is found in Mark 13:26 & 27.
This Greek word “then” indicates a follow on event but that event might be some later time.
We will look at 4 passages with this same Greek word “then” to see how God can use this word:
We read in Matthew 2:14-16:
14 When he arose, he took the young child and
his mother by night, and departed into
15 And was there until the
death of Herod: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the
prophet, saying, Out of
16 ¶ Then Herod, when he saw that he was mocked of the wise men, was exceeding wroth, and sent forth, and slew all the children that were in Bethlehem, and in all the coasts thereof, from two years old and under, according to the time which he had diligently enquired of the wise men.
Greek word “then” is found in verse 16. Verses 14-15 talk about how
Joseph took his family into
Verse 16 talks about how Herod was angry when he realized that the wise men had not come back to tell him where the baby king was. Verse 16 occurred sometime after verse 15. It may have taken Herod a while to realize that the wise men were not coming back to him.
There is nothing to indicate that verse 16 occurred immediately after verse 15. In fact, it would have required some time for Herod to realize that the wise men were not coming back to him. Verse 16 could not have occurred right after verse 15. Rather, verse 16 is the next event in the progression that God is describing.
We read in Matthew 3:1-5:
1 ¶ In those days came John the Baptist, preaching in the
2 And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.
3 For this is he that was spoken of by the prophet Esaias, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.
4 And the same John had his raiment of camel’s hair, and a leathern girdle about his loins; and his meat was locusts and wild honey.
5 Then went out to him
Verse 5 has this same Greek word “then”.
Verses 1 to 4 describe the beginning of the ministry of John the Baptist and tell us some things about him.
Then, in verse 5 God talks about the next event that He wishes to describe, which was the coming of people to hear John. However, verse 5 did not have to happen immediately after John came into the wilderness. It is just that sometime later, the next event that God wants to describe, is that people came out to listen to John.
Verse 5 did not necessarily happen right after verses 1 to 4.
We read in Matthew 3:12-13:
12 Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.
13 ¶ Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to
Verse 12 ends the warning from John the Baptist to the unsaved. Verse 13 has this same Greek word “then”. Verse 13 describes the coming of the Lord Jesus to John to be baptized. That could have been some time later. Verse 13 gives the next event that God wants to describe, but it did not necessarily happen right after John gave his warning.
We read in Matthew 9:13-14:
13 But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.
14 ¶ Then came to him the disciples of John, saying, Why do we and the Pharisees fast oft, but thy disciples fast not?
Verse 14 has the same Greek word “then”. Verse 13 ends the response by Jesus to a statement made by the Pharisees to His disciples. Verse 14 starts a new situation in which the disciples of John came to Jesus with a question.
Verse 15 begins a new subject matter. It could have been some time later.
The Gospels describe 3 ½ years of the earthly ministry of the Lord Jesus. Yet, there are only a few hours of dialog contained in the Gospels. So, there was much time between the events and conversations that are recorded in the Gospels. These separate events are frequently connected by this Greek word “then”.
The four Gospels contain the information that God wants us to know. There were many more events that occurred over those 3 ½ years that are not recorded. However, God uses this same Greek word “then” to separate those distinct events that occurred over that 3 ½ year period which God wanted recorded. So, there would have been time between the events that are separated by this Greek word “then”.
These are 4 example verses with this same Greek word “then” found in Mark 13:26 and Luke 23:30. These 4 examples show us that this Greek word “then” can mean the passage of some time before the next event.
So, Mark 13:24-25 talk about the time right after the Great Tribulation ends on May 21, 2011. However, with the word “then” in verse 26, God is telling us that sometime later the events of verses 26-27 will occur. That time can easily be October 21, 2011 at the end of the 5 months.
Likewise, the word “then” in Luke 23:30 tells us that the events of verse 30 can happen some time later than the events of verses 28-29.
We must examine the Bible carefully, looking at every word that might impact the meaning or time frame of a verse.
You said “Your theory that there are five months between Matthew 24 verses 29 and 30 is preposterous.”
It may seem “preposterous” to you, but for truth we have to compare Scripture with Scripture. Matthew 24:30 begins with this Greek word “then” and as shown in the 4 examples above, there can be a space of time between verses separated by this Greek word “then”. That means that there can be 5 months between them.
You also said “God has appointed a period of time in which he will execute his full wrath upon the human race. This period of time consists of five months that the Bible refers to as the Day of Judgment.”
You said that the 5 months of Revelation 9 is the Day of Judgment in which God will execute his full wrath upon the unsaved. However, you have not provided any proof from the Bible to support that statement.
What is the proof from the Bible that the 5 months of Revelation 9 is the Day of Judgment in which God will execute His full wrath upon the unsaved?
Revelation 9 does not use the term Day of Judgment or anything like that.
Revelation 9:4-6 has been examined in previous emails and it has been shown, by comparing Scripture with Scripture, that this passage has no language that requires a super horrible suffering by the unsaved.
Both May 21, 2011 and October 21, 2011 come from the time line of history. There are exactly 5 months according to our calendar between those 2 dates. Those statements are correct, but in our discussions, you have provided no verses that show that this 5 months is the when God “will execute his full wrath upon the human race”. You have made that statement, but you don’t provide any proof from the Bible to support it.
You said “your idea that the torment in the Day of Judgment will not be any more severe than what believers experience every day as they interact with the unsaved is simply ridiculous.”
The problem with this statement is that you are assuming that the 5 months of Revelation 9 from May 21, 2011 to October 21, 2011, is the “Day of Judgment”. But, you have not provided any Biblical support for that statement.
If you start with an unproven assumption that the “Day of Judgment”, the time that the unsaved will experience the full wrath of God, begins on May 21, 2011, then you can build all kinds of conclusions based upon that assumption. But, you have not shown from the Bible that this “Day of Judgment” begins on May 21, 2011.
You have to go back to basics and provide proof from the Bible that the Day of Judgment in which God “will execute his full wrath upon the human race” is that 5 months from May 21, 2011 to October 21, 2011.
Let’s get back to another statement you made about when the Day of Judgment begins.
The Day of Judgment begins with the Rapture. You would agree with that right?
Since the Day of Judgment is the time when “in which he will execute his full wrath upon the human race”, then we know that the Day of Judgment is the day of the Rapture.
So, to determine when the Day of Judgment begins, we have to search the Bible to see when the Rapture occurs. They are the same date.
That is the purpose of the study “When is the Rapture?”. In that study, 4 groups of verses were given that give strong Biblical arguments for the Rapture being after the 5 months.
In the last email, I summarized those arguments in 5 points. For reference, they are copied below:
1. The 5 months is the 5th trumpet, yet the Rapture is the last or 7th trumpet.
2. God has tied the 5th to 7th trumpets to the 1st to 3rd woes and has put careful language showing that the 3 woes are chronological events, which sets the 7th trumpet and Rapture after the 5 months which is the 5th trumpet / 1st woe.
3. In Revelation 11:12-15, God talks about the Rapture at the 7th trumpet / 3rd woe, which is after the 5th trumpet / 1st woe, the 5 months.
4. God has defined the term “last day” to identify with when the true believers come to Christ and with the Rapture and the last day of the Feast of Tabernacles in which the true believers are sent home. This date is October 21, 2011.
5. God says to the scorpions on the earth not to harm the true believers. That word “say” is always used to indicate a real possibility.
This is a summary of the arguments for why the Rapture is on October 21, 2011. Since we know that the Day of Judgment begins with the Rapture, then that would put the Day of Judgment on October 21, 2011.
To have a balanced discussion of when the Day of Judgment begins, please respond to the arguments in “When is the Rapture?”, since we know that the Day of Judgment is the day of the Rapture.
You said “If you ever come across anything in the Bible which would indicate that the Day of Judgment begins on any other day than May 21, 2011, please be kind enough to let me know.”
Yes, we have come across a lot in the Bible which would indicate that the Day of Judgment begins on October 21, 2011, the date of the Rapture.
There is a lot of information from the Bible that points to the Rapture and the beginning of the Day of Judgment being on October 21, 2011 in the study “When is the Rapture?”
In order to have a meaningful discussion on when is the Day of Judgment, please examine that study and respond to it.