FEEDBACK: WILL THE RAPTURE BE ON OCTOBER 21, 2011?
PART #4
3/22/10
We
appreciate feedback on the studies posted on this website. It helps us to see
if there is anything on this website that does not agree with the Bible.
Below IS A QUESTION about REVELATION 9 AND WHEN IS
THE RAPTURE?
THE READER’S QUESTION IS IN ITALICS. OUR
RESPONSE FOLLOWS.
You falsely insinuated that we
are already in the Day of Judgment. Although the world has been under judgment
since the original sin, God has appointed a period of time in which he will
execute his full wrath upon the human race. This period of time consists of
five months that the Bible refers to as the Day of Judgment.
This period of five months begins immediately after the tribulation. Christ
referred to this time period in Mark 13:24. He also spoke of these days in Luke
23:28-30. We have learned from the Biblical Calendar that this five month Day
of Judgment locks solidly between May 21, and October 21, 2011. Because the
elect are not to endure the wrath of God, we can be certain that they will be
raptured on May 21, 2011.
Your idea that the torment in the Day of Judgment will not be any more severe
than what believers experience every day as they interact with the unsaved is
simply ridiculous. Your theory that there are five months between Matthew
verses 29 and 30 is preposterous. It is not profitable for me to entertain this
type of nonsense any longer!
If you ever come across anything in the Bible which would indicate that the Day
of Judgment begins on any other day than May 21, 2011, please be kind enough to
let me know.
Thanks.
I
do not believe we are already in the Day of Judgment or Judgment Day. I believe
that the Great Tribulation started in 1988 and that is a time when judgment has
fallen upon all of the corporate people of God. Judgment begins in the house of
God (1 Peter 4:17). So, I believe we are in a time of judgment, but we are not
yet to the Day of Judgment.
Let’s
look at the two passages that you mentioned.
You
mentioned Mark 13:24. Let’s look at verses 24-27:
24 ¶ But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be
darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,
25 And the stars of heaven
shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.
26 And then shall they see
the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
27 And then shall he send
his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the
uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.
This
passage is similar to Matthew 24:29-31. The language “the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her
light” in verse 24 indicates that there is no more possibility of
salvation.
As
discussed in the previous email, Mark 13:25 is pointing to the fallen state of
the unsaved corporate people of God. There is nothing in these two verses, Mark
13:24-25, that speak about the unsaved suffering the full wrath of God as in
the Day of Judgment. These verses talk about the termination of the Gospel and
the fallen state of God’s corporate people.
You
stated that Mark 13:24 refers to the Day of Judgment in which the unsaved will
experience the full wrath of God. However, there is nothing about the Day of
Judgment in Mark 13:24. This verse is talking about the termination of the
Gospel of salvation. There will be no more light of the Gospel.
Notice
that Mark 13:26 begins with the word “then”. The next verse, verse 27
also begins with this same Greek word “then”. This is a very important
word in this passage. We will examine this Greek word shortly.
You
also mentioned Luke 23:28-30 where we read:
28 But Jesus turning unto
them said, Daughters of
29 For, behold, the days
are coming, in the which they shall say, Blessed are the barren, and the
wombs that never bare, and the paps which never gave suck.
30 Then shall they begin to
say to the mountains, Fall on us; and to the hills, Cover us.
Verses
28-29 have to do with God no longer saving within His corporate people when the
Holy Spirit has been taken away.
In
verse 30, we see the word “then”. This is the same Greek word “then”
that is found in Mark 13:26 & 27.
This
Greek word “then” indicates a follow on event but that event might be
some later time.
We
will look at 4 passages with this same Greek word “then” to see how God
can use this word:
We
read in Matthew 2:14-16:
14 When he arose, he took the young child and
his mother by night, and departed into
15 And was there until the
death of Herod: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the
prophet, saying, Out of
16 ¶ Then Herod, when he saw that he was mocked of the wise men,
was exceeding wroth, and sent forth, and slew all the children that were in
Bethlehem, and in all the coasts thereof, from two years old and under,
according to the time which he had diligently enquired of the wise men.
This
Greek word “then” is found in verse 16. Verses 14-15 talk about how
Joseph took his family into
Verse
16 talks about how Herod was angry when he realized that the wise men had not
come back to tell him where the baby king was. Verse 16 occurred sometime after
verse 15. It may have taken Herod a while to realize that the wise men were not
coming back to him.
There
is nothing to indicate that verse 16 occurred immediately after verse 15. In
fact, it would have required some time for Herod to realize that the wise men
were not coming back to him. Verse 16 could not have occurred right after verse
15. Rather, verse 16 is the next event in the progression that God is
describing.
We
read in Matthew 3:1-5:
1 ¶ In those days came John the Baptist, preaching in the
wilderness of
2 And saying, Repent ye:
for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.
3 For this is he that was
spoken of by the prophet Esaias, saying, The voice of one crying in the
wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.
4 And the same John had his
raiment of camel’s hair, and a leathern girdle about his loins; and his meat
was locusts and wild honey.
5 Then went out to him
Verse
5 has this same Greek word “then”.
Verses
1 to 4 describe the beginning of the ministry of John the Baptist and tell us
some things about him.
Then,
in verse 5 God talks about the next event that He wishes to describe, which was
the coming of people to hear John. However, verse 5 did not have to happen
immediately after John came into the wilderness. It is just that sometime
later, the next event that God wants to describe, is that people came out to
listen to John.
Verse
5 did not necessarily happen right after verses 1 to 4.
We
read in Matthew 3:12-13:
12 Whose fan is in
his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the
garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.
13 ¶ Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to
Verse
12 ends the warning from John the Baptist to the unsaved. Verse 13 has this
same Greek word “then”. Verse 13 describes the coming of the Lord Jesus
to John to be baptized. That could have been some time later. Verse 13 gives
the next event that God wants to describe, but it did not necessarily happen
right after John gave his warning.
We
read in Matthew 9:13-14:
13 But go ye and learn what
that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to
call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.
14 ¶ Then came to him the disciples of John, saying, Why do we and
the Pharisees fast oft, but thy disciples fast not?
Verse
14 has the same Greek word “then”. Verse 13 ends the response by Jesus
to a statement made by the Pharisees to His disciples. Verse 14 starts a new
situation in which the disciples of John came to Jesus with a question.
Verse
15 begins a new subject matter. It could have been some time later.
The
Gospels describe 3 ½ years of the earthly ministry of the Lord Jesus. Yet,
there are only a few hours of dialog contained in the Gospels. So, there was
much time between the events and conversations that are recorded in the Gospels.
These separate events are frequently connected by this Greek word “then”.
The
four Gospels contain the information that God wants us to know. There were many
more events that occurred over those 3 ½ years that are not recorded. However,
God uses this same Greek word “then” to separate those distinct events
that occurred over that 3 ½ year period which God wanted recorded. So, there
would have been time between the events that are separated by this Greek word “then”.
These
are 4 example verses with this same Greek word “then” found in Mark
13:26 and Luke 23:30. These 4 examples show us that this Greek word “then”
can mean the passage of some time before the next event.
So,
Mark 13:24-25 talk about the time right after the Great Tribulation ends on May
21, 2011. However, with the word “then” in verse 26, God is telling us
that sometime later the events of verses 26-27 will occur. That time can easily
be October 21, 2011 at the end of the 5 months.
Likewise,
the word “then” in Luke 23:30 tells us that the events of verse 30 can
happen some time later than the events of verses 28-29.
We
must examine the Bible carefully, looking at every word that might impact the
meaning or time frame of a verse.
You
said “Your theory
that there are five months between Matthew 24 verses 29 and 30 is preposterous.”
It
may seem “preposterous” to you, but for truth we have to compare Scripture with
Scripture. Matthew 24:30 begins with this Greek word “then” and as shown
in the 4 examples above, there can be a space of time between verses separated
by this Greek word “then”. That means that there can be 5 months between
them.
You
also said “God has
appointed a period of time in which he will execute his full wrath upon the
human race. This period of time consists of five months that the Bible refers
to as the Day of Judgment.”
You
said that the 5 months of Revelation 9 is the Day of Judgment in which God will
execute his full wrath upon the unsaved. However, you have not provided any
proof from the Bible to support that statement.
What
is the proof from the Bible that the 5 months of Revelation 9 is the Day of
Judgment in which God will execute His full wrath upon the unsaved?
Revelation
9 does not use the term Day of Judgment or anything like that.
Revelation
9:4-6 has been examined in previous emails and it has been shown, by comparing
Scripture with Scripture, that this passage has no language that requires a
super horrible suffering by the unsaved.
Both
May 21, 2011 and October 21, 2011 come from the time line of history. There are
exactly 5 months according to our calendar between those 2 dates. Those
statements are correct, but in our discussions, you have provided no verses
that show that this 5 months is the when God “will execute his full wrath upon the human race”. You have made that statement, but you don’t provide
any proof from the Bible to support it.
You
said “your idea that
the torment in the Day of Judgment will not be any more severe than what
believers experience every day as they interact with the unsaved is simply
ridiculous.”
The
problem with this statement is that you are assuming that the 5 months of
Revelation 9 from May 21, 2011 to October 21, 2011, is the “Day of Judgment”.
But, you have not provided any Biblical support for that statement.
If
you start with an unproven assumption that the “Day of Judgment”, the time that
the unsaved will experience the full wrath of God, begins on May 21, 2011, then
you can build all kinds of conclusions based upon that assumption. But, you
have not shown from the Bible that this “Day of Judgment” begins on May 21,
2011.
You
have to go back to basics and provide proof from the Bible that the Day of
Judgment in which God “will execute his full wrath upon the human race” is that 5 months from May 21, 2011 to October 21,
2011.
Let’s
get back to another statement you made about when the Day of Judgment begins.
The
Day of Judgment begins with the Rapture. You would agree with that right?
Since
the Day of Judgment is the time when “in which he will execute his full wrath upon the human race”, then we know that the Day of Judgment is the day of
the Rapture.
So,
to determine when the Day of Judgment begins, we have to search the Bible to
see when the Rapture occurs. They are the same date.
That
is the purpose of the study “When is the Rapture?”. In that study, 4 groups of
verses were given that give strong Biblical arguments for the Rapture being
after the 5 months.
In
the last email, I summarized those arguments in 5 points. For reference, they
are copied below:
1. The 5 months is the 5th
trumpet, yet the Rapture is the last or 7th trumpet.
2. God has tied the 5th
to 7th trumpets to the 1st to 3rd woes and has
put careful language showing that the 3 woes are chronological events, which
sets the 7th trumpet and Rapture after the 5 months which is the 5th
trumpet / 1st woe.
3. In Revelation 11:12-15, God
talks about the Rapture at the 7th trumpet / 3rd woe,
which is after the 5th trumpet / 1st woe, the 5
months.
4. God has defined the term
“last day” to identify with when the true believers come to Christ and with the
Rapture and the last day of the Feast of Tabernacles in which the true
believers are sent home. This date is October 21, 2011.
5. God says to the scorpions
on the earth not to harm the true believers. That word “say” is always used to
indicate a real possibility.
This
is a summary of the arguments for why the Rapture is on October 21, 2011. Since
we know that the Day of Judgment begins with the Rapture, then that would put
the Day of Judgment on October 21, 2011.
To
have a balanced discussion of when the Day of Judgment begins, please respond
to the arguments in “When is the Rapture?”, since we know that the Day of
Judgment is the day of the Rapture.
You
said “If you ever
come across anything in the Bible which would indicate that the Day of Judgment
begins on any other day than May 21, 2011, please be kind enough to let me
know.”
Yes,
we have come across a lot in the Bible which would indicate that the Day of Judgment
begins on October 21, 2011, the date of the Rapture.
There
is a lot of information from the Bible that points to the Rapture and the
beginning of the Day of Judgment being on October 21, 2011 in the study “When
is the Rapture?”
In
order to have a meaningful discussion on when is the Day of Judgment, please
examine that study and respond to it.
Thank
you.