FEEDBACK: DISCUSSION CONCERNING THE JUDGMENT OF GOD
UPON THE UNSAVED
2/4/10
We
appreciate feedback on the studies posted on this website. It helps us to see
if there is anything on this website that does not agree with the Bible.
Below is A DISCUSSION CONCERNING THE JUDGMENT OF GOD UPON THE UNSAVED.
THE READER’S FEEDBACK IS IN ITALICS. OUR
RESPONSE IS IN ALL CAPITALS AND [].
IN THE TEXT BELOW, THE READER IS RESPONDING TO
ANOTHER PERSON’S EMAIL, SO THERE ARE 3 PEOPLE INVOLVED IN THIS DISCUSSION.
LR,
Quite some time ago, someone submitted 50 questions on LR regarding
annihilation. I now want to attempt to answer these as I'm able, the Lord
willing, and the Lord helping me. I welcome any correction or
clarification/discussion. Since his 50 questions made up a very long post, I'm
only going to respond to 10 at a time. The addition of my answers will probably
make each set of 10 questions/answers even longer than the original 50-question
post. I don't plan to rush these through, so they will not be submitted in
rapid fashion. If nothing else, I pray this helps with regard to understanding
more about time and judgment.
One thing to note is that his position assumes the unsaved will be resurrected
to life for the events occurring at the very end of the world. My responses
indicate, however, that since those events occur at the end of the world, only
those living at the end will experience them. Of course, true believers who
have died will indeed be resurrected to eternal life.
[YOU
MENTIONED “One thing to note is that his position assumes the
unsaved will be resurrected to life”.
WHAT
PEOPLE MEAN BY A STATEMENT LIKE THIS IS “One thing to note is that his
position assumes the unsaved will be resurrected to consciousness”
WE
THINK THIS WAY BECAUSE IN OUR MINDS WE HAVE FIRMLY ESTABLISHED THE DEFINITIONS
THAT “LIFE = CONSCIOUS EXISTENCE” AND “DEATH = CESSATION OF EXISTENCE OR A
CORPSE”. THESE STATEMENTS SEEM PRETTY OBVIOUS.
HOWEVER,
WHEN WE CHECK THOSE DEFINITIONS AGAINST THE BIBLE, WE FIND MANY VERSES THAT DO
NOT AGREE WITH THOSE DEFINITIONS.
WHEN
ADAM SINNED, HE REALLY DID DIE THE DAY HE SINNED ACCORDING TO THE BIBLE
(GENESIS 2:17). THE UNSAVED ARE ALREADY DEAD (PROVERBS 21:16, MATTHEW 8:22,
ROMANS 7:9-11, EPHESIANS 2:1,5, 1 PETER 4:6).
HOWEVER,
THE UNSAVED STILL EXIST. THEY HAVE BOTH A BODY AND A SPIRIT (1 PETER 3:19). WE
USE THE TERM “SPIRITUALLY DEAD” TO TALK ABOUT THE UNSAVED. HOWEVER, THE BIBLE
INDICATES THAT EVEN THE BODY OF THE BELIEVERS IS DEAD (ROMANS 8:10, 1
CORINTHIANS 15:29). IF THE BODY OF THE TRUE BELIEVER IS “DEAD”, THEN THE BODY
OF THE UNSAVED IS “DEAD” ALSO. ACCORDING TO THE BIBLE, THE UNSAVED ARE BOTH
“SPIRITUALLY DEAD” AND “PHYSICALLY DEAD”.
ALSO,
THE TERM “SPIRITUALLY DEAD” DOES NOT AGREE WITH THE DEFINITION THAT “DEATH = A
CESSATION OF EXISTENCE” BECAUSE THE UNSAVED STILL HAVE A SPIRIT-ESSENCE (1
PETER 3:19). THEY ARE “SPIRITS IN PRISON”. THEY HAVE A SPIRIT-ESSENCE.
ONE
IMPORTANT TRUTH IS THAT GOD SAYS THAT HE HIMSELF IS “LIFE” (JOHN 11:25, 14:6).
BEFORE
SALVATION, GOD SAYS THAT WE HAVE NO LIFE IN US (JOHN 6:53). DO WE NOT HAVE
EXISTENCE IN US?
NO,
BUT BEFORE SALVATION WE DO NOT HAVE GOD, WHO IS “LIFE”, IN US. WE ARE NOT
INDWELT BY GOD (ROMANS 8:9) NOR DOES GOD “WORK IN
WHEN
WE BECOME SAVED, WE HAVE PASSED FROM DEATH UNTO LIFE (JOHN 5:24, 1 JOHN 3:14).
HAVE WE PASSED FROM NON-EXISTENCE TO EXISTENCE?
NO,
BUT WE HAVE PASSED FROM SEPARATION FROM GOD, TO GOD INDWELLING. GOD IS “LIFE”
(JOHN 11:25, 14:6).
WHEN
WE BECOME SAVED, WE HAVE “ENTERED INTO LIFE” (MATTHEW 18:8,9, MARK 9:43, 45).
HAVE WE ENTERED INTO EXISTENCE?
NO,
BUT WE HAVE ENTERED INTO GOD HIMSELF, AND INTO HIS KINGDOM.
WHEN
WE BECOME SAVED, GOD GIVES US “LIFE” (1 JOHN 5:16). DOES GOD GIVE
NO.
BUT, GOD GIVES US HIMSELF, WHO IS “LIFE”. GOD COMES TO INDWELL US AND ENERGIZE
US (ROMANS 8:9, PHILIPPIANS 2:12-13).
NONE
OF THESE VERSES WILL FIT OUR TRADITIONAL DEFINITIONS THAT “LIFE = CONSCIOUS
EXISTENCE” AND “DEATH = CESSATION OF EXISTENCE OR A CORPSE”.
THERE
ARE MANY OTHER VERSES THAT DO NOT FIT OUR TRADITIONAL DEFINITIONS THAT “LIFE =
EXISTENCE” AND “DEATH = CESSATION OF EXISTENCE OR A CORPSE”.
HOWEVER,
THE BIBLE DOES TEACH THAT GOD HIMSELF IS LIFE (JOHN 11:25, 14:6).
GOD
ALSO SAYS THAT FOR MANKIND, “He that
hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not
life.” IN 1 JOHN 5:12.
1
JOHN 5:12 IS EFFECTIVELY TELLING US THAT “LIFE” FOR MANKIND HAS TO DO WITH HIS
RELATIONSHIP TO GOD, WHO IS “LIFE”.
A
CAREFUL STUDY OF THE BIBLE RESULTS IN MORE THAN 50 VERSES THAT AGREE WITH THE
DEFINITIONS THAT GOD HIMSELF IS “LIFE” (JOHN 11:25, 14:6), AND THAT “LIFE” FOR
MANKIND HAS TO DO WITH HIS RELATIONSHIP WITH GOD, WHO IS “LIFE” (JOHN 6:53, 1
JOHN 5:12) AND THAT “DEATH” FOR MANKIND IS SEPARATION, ESPECIALLY FROM GOD
(GENESIS 2:17, ROMANS 8:10, EPHESIANS 2:1,5, 1 CORINTHIANS 15:29).
THE
CORPSE THAT WE SEE IS ACTUALLY A BODY SLEEPING IN THE DUST. THEY WILL “AWAKE”
TO CONSCIOUSNESS (DANIEL 12:2).
THIS
SUBJECT IS COVERED IN MUCH GREATER DETAIL IN THESE STUDIES:
http://www.isannihilationtrue.com/death1.htm
http://www.isannihilationtrue.com/life1.htm
http://www.isannihilationtrue.com/dust1.htm
THIS
IS A KEY ISSUE AND WITHOUT A CORRECT UNDERSTANDING OF THE BIBLICAL DEFINITIONS
OF “LIFE” AND “DEATH” FOR MANKIND, WE CANNOT COME TO TRUTH ON THE QUESTION OF
WHETHER THE UNSAVED ARE ANNIHILATED. ]
I will begin with his opening statements and my responses to them as
well. My responses are designated with "A." (for Answer).
From Post 35128, June 23, 2008:
ET/FRL
1. Since all those not written in the book of life are cast into the lake of
fire - Revelation 20:15, meaning all the non-elect, and those cast into the
lake of fire are ALIVE in Revelation 19:20, how can they not have conscious
existance (sic) if they are alive?
A. First, Revelation 19:20 refers only to the beast and false prophet being
cast alive into the lake of fire. It does not mention all of the non-elect at
all. In the next verse, verse 21, it says the remnant were slain with the sword
and all fowls were filled with their flesh. So they were not cast alive into
the lake of fire in that passage.
[ONE
THING TO NOTE IS THAT REVELATION 19:21 MUST BE A PARABOLIC STATEMENT.
IF
WE BELIEVE THAT IT IS TEACHING ABOUT BIRDS LITERALLY EATING THE CORPSES OF THE
UNSAVED, THEN WE HAVE TO FOLLOW THROUGH ON THAT LINE OF REASONING FOR THE WHOLE
VERSE.
WE
READ IN REVELATION 19:21:
And the remnant
were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded
out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.
IF
WE BELIEVE THAT THIS VERSE IS TEACHING THAT BIRDS WILL LITERALLY EAT THE
CORPSES OF THE UNSAVED, THEN WE HAVE TO FOLLOW THROUGH ON THE SEQUENCE OF
EVENTS GIVEN IN REVELATION 19:21. HERE IT IS:
1.
THE LORD JESUS COMES FROM HEAVEN RIDING UPON A HORSE
2.
A SWORD COMES OUT JESUS’ MOUTH
3.
THE SWORD PIERCES THE UNSAVED
4.
THEN THE BIRDS CAN EAT THEIR CORPSES.
IF
WE READ THE VERSE CAREFULLY, WE CAN SEE THAT IT IS COMPLETELY A PARABOLIC
STATEMENT. IT IS NOT A LITERAL ACCOUNT OF JUDGMENT DAY.
IF
WE INSIST THAT THE EATING OF THE CORPSES IS LITERAL, THEN WE HAVE TO BE
CONSISTENT AND SAY THAT ALL OF THE ABOVE 4 STATEMENTS WILL LITERALLY HAPPEN.
BECAUSE
REVELATION 19:21 IS A PARABOLIC STATEMENT, IT CANNOT BE USED AS A PROOF TEXT
THAT THIS WORLD WILL BECOME
THERE
IS MORE INFORMATION ON THIS SUBJECT IN THE STUDY:
http://www.isannihilationtrue.com/eagles1.htm
]
Secondly, Revelation 20:15 does not say that all of the non-elect are
alive when cast into the fire. Verse 12 speaks of the unsaved throughout time,
standing before God and being judged. Verse 13 speaks of the unsaved who have
died and are in their graves. In verse 14, death and hell itself are cast into
the lake of fire, and in verse 15, it sums up that every unsaved is cast into
the lake of fire. It does not say "cast alive" to indicate every
unsaved person throughout time was resurrected to life to be cast into the lake
of fire.
[AN
IMPORTANT POINT TO UNDERSTAND IS THAT THE
WE
READ IN REVELATION 20:10:
And the devil
that deceived them was cast into the
REVELATION
20:10 TALKS ABOUT THOSE CAST INTO THE
ANYONE
CAST INTO A LITERAL FIRE WILL GO UNCONSCIOUS IN A FEW SECONDS OR MINUTES.
SOMEONE CANNOT BE “TORMENTED DAY AND NIGHT …” IN A LITERAL FIRE.
ALSO,
WHEN WE EXAMINE HOW THE GOD USES THIS GREEK WORD TRANSLATED “TORMENT”, IT IS
NEVER USED TO INDICATE THE AFFLICTION OF BEING BURNED BY A LITERAL FIRE.
IT
IS USED TO DESCRIBE THE PAIN OF CHILD BIRTH (REVELATION 12:2), THE AFFLICTIONS
OF DISEASES (MATTHEW 4:24, 8:6), THE TRUE BELIEVER’S AFFLICTION OF LIVING
AMONGST GREAT SIN (2 PETER 2:8), AND THIS WORD IS USED TO INDICATE OTHER KINDS
OF CONSCIOUS AFFLICTIONS. HOWEVER, IT IS NEVER USED TO DESCRIBE THE AFFLICTION
OF BEING BURNED IN A LITERAL FIRE.
WE
MUST KEEP IN MIND THAT GOD DEFINES WORDS BY HOW HE USES THEM IN THE BIBLE (1
CORINTHIANS 2:13).
FOR
THESE TWO REASONS, WE CAN KNOW THAT THE
LIKEWISE,
THE
CONCERNING
THE FIRE OF 2 PETER 3:10 WE READ “the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth
also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.”
SOMEONE
CANNOT BE CONSCIOUSLY AFFLICTED “DAY AND NIGHT” IN A FIRE IN WHICH “the elements shall melt with
fervent heat”. SOMEONE CAST INTO THAT
KIND OF FIRE WILL GO UNCONSCIOUS IN A FEW SECONDS OR MINUTES.
THEREFORE,
THE
RATHER,
THE
THE
IF
THE LAKE OF FIRE WERE A LITERAL FIRE THAT COULD BURN UP THE CORPSES OR BONES OF
THE UNSAVED, THEN NO ONE COULD BE “tormented day and night” IN THAT KIND OF FIRE.
SOMEONE
CAST INTO A FIRE THAT BURNS UP CORPSES AND BONES WILL GO UNCONSCIOUS IN A FEW
SECONDS OR MINUTES. SOMEONE CANNOT BE “tormented day and night” IN FIRE THAT BURNS UP BONES OR
CORPSES.
THEREFORE,
THE
REVELATION
14:10 IS ALSO DESCRIBING THE SAME
NOTICE
THE PARALLEL LANGUAGE BETWEEN REVELATION 14:10 & 20:10:
REVELATION
14:10 TALKS ABOUT BEING “tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy
angels, and in the presence of the Lamb”
REVELATION
20:10 TALKS ABOUT “cast
into the
NOTICE
THE PARALLEL LANGUAGE BETWEEN REVELATION 14:10 AND 20:10. BOTH HAVE THE THREE
WORDS “FIRE”, “BRIMSTONE” AND “TORMENTED”. BOTH VERSES ARE
DESCRIBING THE SAME
LET’S
LOOK AT REVELATION 14:9-10 IN MORE DETAIL. WE READ THERE:
9
And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man
worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in
his hand,
10
The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured
out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented
with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence
of the Lamb:
THE
CRITERIA OF VERSE 9 APPLIES TO ALL OF THE UNSAVED THROUGHOUT TIME. THE BEAST IS
SATAN. FINALLY ALL OF THE FALSE RELIGIONS AND FALSE GODS ARE POINTING TO SATAN.
ANYONE WHO IS NOT SAVED WORSHIPS SATAN THROUGH HIS FALSE RELIGION OR FALSE
PHILOSOPHY. THIS IS TRUE OF ALL OF THE UNSAVED THROUGHOUT TIME.
THE
GREEK WORD TRANSLATED “IMAGE” IN REVELATION 14:9 IS ALSO FOUND IN ROMANS
1:23 TO DESCRIBE HOW UNSAVED MAN MAKES AN “IMAGE” OR IDOL TO WORSHIP.
THIS HAS BEEN TRUE OF UNSAVED MAN THROUGHOUT TIME.
THE
FOCUS OF ROMANS 1:18-32 IS NOT UPON THE UNSAVED CHURCH PEOPLE. IT IS UPON THOSE
THAT HAVE NEVER HAD THE BIBLE.
THE
REFERENCE TO THE “MARK” OF SATAN REFERS TO THE FACT THAT THE UNSAVED ARE
PART OF SATAN’S DOMINION. IT TIES INTO COLOSSIANS 1:13. BEFORE SALVATION WE
WERE PART OF THE “power of darkness”
OR THE AUTHORITY OF SATAN. THIS APPLIES TO ALL OF THE UNSAVED THROUGHOUT TIME.
SO,
THE CRITERIA OF REVELATION 14:9 APPLIES TO ALL OF THE UNSAVED THROUGHOUT TIME.
REVELATION
14:6-8 IS TALKING ABOUT THE TIME RIGHT BEFORE THE END OF THE WORLD. THEREFORE,
IT IS ARGUED THAT REVELATION 14:9 ONLY APPLIES TO THE UNSAVED IN THIS WORLD AT
THE END OF THE WORLD.
ACTUALLY,
REVELATION 14:9-11 COMES AFTER VERSES 6-8 BECAUSE IT IS AT THE END OF THE WORLD
THAT ALL THE UNSAVED WILL EXPERIENCE THE CONSCIOUS AFFLICTION TALKED ABOUT IN
REVELATION 14:10-11.
HOWEVER,
THE QUESTION STILL REMAINS: DOES THE BIBLE GIVE PROOF THAT THE CRITERIA OF
REVELATION 14:9 APPLIES TO ALL OF THE UNSAVED THROUGHOUT TIME?
WE
GET HELP BY LOOKING AT PSALM 75:8. WE READ THERE:
For in the hand of the LORD there is a
cup, and the wine is red; it is full of mixture; and he poureth out of the
same: but the dregs thereof, all the wicked of the earth shall wring them out,
and drink them.
IN
PSALM 75:8 GOD TALKS ABOUT A “CUP”. IT IS THE CUP OF GOD’S WRATH. THIS
VERSE SAYS THAT “all the
wicked of the earth” SHALL DRINK THAT CUP OF GOD’S WRATH. THAT IS
TALKING ABOUT ALL OF THE UNSAVED IN THE DAYS OF THE PSALMIST, THE HUMAN SCRIBE,
AND IT IS TALKING ABOUT THE UNSAVED THROUGHOUT TIME.
ALL
OF THE UNSAVED THROUGHOUT TIME ARE PART OF THE “wicked of the earth”. ACCORDING TO PSALM
75:8 ALL OF THE UNSAVED THROUGHOUT TIME WILL DRINK THE “CUP” OF GOD’S
WRATH.
THE
“CUP” OF GOD’S WRATH IN PSALM 75:8 IS THE SAME AS THE “cup of his indignation”
THAT WE READ ABOUT IN REVELATION 14:10. BOTH ARE TALKING ABOUT THE SAME CUP OF
GOD’S WRATH. REVELATION 14:10 IDENTIFIES THAT THE DRINKING OF THE CUP OF GOD’S
WRATH WITH BEING “tormenteD”,
A CONSCIOUS AFFLICTION.
PSALM
75:8 SHOWS US THAT ALL OF THE UNSAVED THROUGHOUT TIME MUST DRINK THE CUP OF
GOD’S WRATH, WHICH INCLUDES CONSCIOUS AFFLICTION AS INDICATED IN REVELATION
14:10.
PSALM
11:5-6 PROVIDES FURTHER HELP WITH THIS TOPIC. WE READ THERE:
5
The LORD trieth the righteous: but the wicked and him that loveth
violence his soul hateth.
6
Upon the wicked he shall rain snares, fire and brimstone, and an
horrible tempest: this shall be the portion of their cup.
PSALM
11:5 IS TALKING ABOUT ALL OF THE TRUE BELIEVERS THROUGHOUT TIME. THEY ARE
REFERRED TO AS THE “righteous”.
THEY ARE RIGHTEOUS BECAUSE CHRIST HAS COVERED ALL OF THEIR SIN.
PSALM
11:5-6 IS ALSO TALKING ABOUT ALL OF THE UNSAVED THROUGHOUT TIME. THEY ARE
REFERRED TO AS THE “wicked”.
VERSE
6 TALKS ABOUT THE “CUP” OF GOD’S WRATH THAT ALL OF THE UNSAVED
THROUGHOUT TIME MUST DRINK. THIS “CUP” OF GOD’S WRATH TIES INTO PSALM
75:8 AND REVELATION 14:10. ALL THREE VERSES ARE TALKING ABOUT THE SAME CUP OF
GOD’S WRATH.
PSALM
11:6 SAYS THAT THE “CUP” OF GOD’S WRATH FOR ALL OF THE UNSAVED
THROUGHOUT TIME INCLUDES “fire
and brimstone”.
WITH
PSALM 11:6 ALONE, WE MIGHT THINK THAT THE “fire and brimstone” REFERS TO THE BURNING
OF THE CORPSES OF THE UNSAVED. HOWEVER, REVELATION 14:10 TELLS US THAT THE
UNSAVED ARE “tormented
with fire and brimstone”, A CONSCIOUS AFFLICTION.
PSALM
11:6 TELLS US THAT ALL OF THE UNSAVED THROUGHOUT TIME MUST DRINK THE “CUP”
OF GOD’S WRATH. THAT CUP INCLUDES “fire and brimstone”. THEN REVELATION 14:10 GIVES MORE
INFORMATION, TEACHING THAT ALL OF THE UNSAVED THROUGHOUT TIME ARE “tormented with fire and brimstone”,
A CONSCIOUS AFFLICTION.
SO,
WHEN WE FOLLOW THE BIBLICAL RULE TO COMPARE SCRIPTURE WITH SCRIPTURE, WE LEARN
FROM PSALM 11:6 AND PSALM 75:8 THAT THE CRITERIA OF REVELATION 14:9-10 IS
TALKING ABOUT ALL OF THE UNSAVED THROUGHOUT TIME.
FOR
ALL OF THE UNSAVED THROUGHOUT TIME, THEIR CUP INCLUDES “fire and brimstone” (PSALM
11:6) WHICH MEANS THAT THEY ALL MUST BE “tormented with fire and brimstone”,
CONSCIOUSLY AFFLICTED (REVELATION 14:9-10).
THIS
AGREES WITH REVELATION 20:15 WHICH SAYS:
And whosoever was
not found written in the book of life was cast into the
THIS
INCLUDES OF THE UNSAVED THROUGHOUT TIME, AND THE
THIS
IS WHY THE UNSAVED MUST “AWAKE” TO CONSCIOUSNESS TO EXPERIENCE THIS CONSCIOUS
AFFLICTION.
WE
READ ABOUT THIS IN DANIEL 12:2:
And many of them
that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and
some to shame and everlasting contempt.
THE
HEBREW WORD TRANSLATED “AWAKE” IN DANIEL 12:2 IS ALWAYS USED IN SETTINGS
THAT REQUIRE CONSCIOUSNESS. IT IS NEVER USED IN A SETTING THAT COULD BE
FULFILLED BY AN UNCONSCIOUS CORPSE OR BONES.
An important principle that we must keep in mind is
that God defines words by how He uses them in the Bible.
Below are some example verses with this Hebrew word:
Psalms 3:5 I laid me down and slept; I awaked <06974>; for the LORD
sustained me.
Psalms 35:23 Stir up thyself, and awake <06974> to my judgment, even
unto my cause, my God and my Lord.
Psalms 59:5 Thou therefore, O LORD God of hosts, the God
of
Proverbs 6:22 When thou goest, it shall lead thee; when
thou sleepest, it shall keep thee; and when thou awakest <06974>, it shall talk
with thee.
Isaiah 29:8 It shall even be as when an hungry man
dreameth, and, behold, he eateth; but he awaketh <06974>, and his soul is
empty: or as when a thirsty man dreameth, and, behold, he drinketh; but he
awaketh <06974>, and, behold, he is faint, and
his soul hath appetite: so shall the multitude of all the nations be, that
fight against mount Zion.
Joel 1:5
Awake <06974>, ye drunkards,
and weep; and howl, all ye drinkers of wine, because of the new wine; for it is
cut off from your mouth.
We can see in each of the above verses,
that the one “awaking” must be awaking to some kind of increased consciousness.
An unconscious corpse or bones could not fulfill any of these verses. This is
true for every usage of this Hebrew word.
In Joel 1:5, God is commanding His unsaved
corporate people to awake or become conscious of their standing before God.
These people are “drunkards” on their wrong gospels. They should wake up
or become conscious of their standing before God and “weep” and “howl”
for God’s mercy.
The idea of “to awake” in Joel 1:5 is
similar to what we read in Ephesians 5:14:
Wherefore he
saith, Awake thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give
thee light.
In Ephesians 5:14 and Joel 1:5, God is
commanding the unsaved to “awake”, that is, be conscious of their standing
before God.
In each of the above verses and in every
verse with this Hebrew word “awake” that we read in Daniel 12:2, the
context requires that the one “awaking” must have increased consciousness.
Unconscious bones or corpses cannot fulfill these verses.
In Habakkuk 2:19, God warns us not to
command an inanimate object like wood or stone, to “awake” using this
same word. We read there:
Woe unto him that
saith to the wood, Awake <06974>; to the dumb
stone, Arise, it shall teach! Behold, it is laid over with gold and
silver, and there is no breath at all in the midst of it.
The context of Habakkuk 2:19 is concerning those
praying to idols of wood or stone.
However, the principle of Habakkuk 2:19 stands.
Namely, that we are not to think that inanimate objects can “awake” because God
defines this word “awake” to signify consciousness. This would include literal
bones or corpses.
In addition, God gives a very important verse in 2
Kings 4:31 using this same Hebrew word. We read there:
And Gehazi passed
on before them, and laid the staff upon the face of the child; but there was
neither voice, nor hearing. Wherefore he went again to meet him, and told him,
saying, The child is not awaked <06974>.
2 Kings 4:31 is a very important verse that God has
given for defining this Hebrew word translated “awake”.
2 Kings 4 has the account of a son born to an older
couple. The son gets sick and dies and his corpse is put in the house. Then the
mother goes to Elisha concerning her son and Elisha sends his servant Gehazi to
see the condition of the son and report back to him.
In verse 31 the boy is still an unconscious corpse.
Gehazi, under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, says concerning this
unconscious corpse “The child is not awake” using this same Hebrew
word.
God carefully designed this account to define that an
unconscious corpse is “not awake”.
However, in Daniel 12:2 it says that the unsaved that
are sleeping in the dust of the earth will “awake”. With the help of 2 Kings
4:31, God is telling us that the unsaved cannot remain as unconscious corpses
because an unconscious corpse is “not awake”. But, God says that the
unsaved will “awake”.
Therefore, we know from Daniel 12:2 and 2 Kings 4:31,
and the other verses that use this same Hebrew word, that the unsaved will not
remain as unconscious corpses. They will awake to consciousness at Judgment
Day.
AS
EXPLAINED ABOVE, THE REASON THAT THE WORD “LIFE” IS NOT ASSOCIATED WITH THE
“AWAKING” OF THE UNSAVED IS BECAUSE “GOD IS LIFE” (JOHN 11:25, 14:6). WHEN THE
UNSAVED “AWAKE” AT JUDGMENT DAY, THEY WILL BE COMPLETELY SEPARATED FROM GOD,
WHO IS “LIFE”.
THIS
MATERIAL IS COVERED IN MORE DETAIL IN THE STUDIES AT THESE LINKS:
http://www.isannihilationtrue.com/proofs1.htm
http://www.isannihilationtrue.com/lakeoffire1.htm
THE
QUESTION ABOUT “LIFE” FOR THE UNSAVED LEADS TO THE NEXT POINT.
YOU
SAID “It does not say ‘cast alive’ to indicate every unsaved person throughout
time was resurrected to life to be cast into the lake of fire.”
THE
QUESTION ABOUT THE UNSAVED BEING “ALIVE” GETS BACK TO THE BIBLICAL DEFINITION
OF “LIFE” AND “DEATH” FOR MANKIND THAT WAS DISCUSSED ABOVE.
IF
WE SAY THAT “LIFE = CONSCIOUS EXISTENCE” AND “DEATH = CESSATION OF EXISTENCE OR
A CORPSE”, THEN WITH THOSE STATEMENTS WE CAN TEACH ANNIHILATION.
HOWEVER,
AS MENTIONED ABOVE, THERE ARE MANY VERSES THAT DO NOT AGREE WITH THOSE
DEFINITIONS. RATHER, THE BIBLE TEACHES THAT GOD HIMSELF IS “LIFE” AND FOR
MANKIND “LIFE” HAS TO DO WITH HIS RELATIONSHIP TO GOD, WHO IS “LIFE”. ALSO,
“DEATH” FOR MANKIND IS SEPARATION, ESPECIALLY FROM GOD.
THE
UNSAVED WHOSE BODIES ARE SLEEPING IN THE DUST WILL “AWAKE” TO CONSCIOUSNESS,
BUT WILL REMAIN COMPLETELY SEPARATED FROM GOD, WHO IS “LIFE”. THAT IS WHY THE
WORD “LIFE” OR “ALIVE” IS NOT USED FOR THE UNSAVED IN ETERNITY FUTURE.
HOWEVER,
THEY WILL “AWAKE” AS READ IN DANIEL 12:2. THAT IS, THEY WILL BE CONSCIOUS, AS
WE DISCUSSED ABOVE.
THERE
IS MORE INFORMATION ON THE BIBLICAL DEFINITION OF “LIFE” AND “DEATH” FOR
MANKIND IN THESE STUDIES:
http://www.isannihilationtrue.com/death1.htm
http://www.isannihilationtrue.com/life1.htm
http://www.isannihilationtrue.com/dust1.htm
ON
ANOTHER POINT, YOU TALKED ABOUT HOW REVELATION 20:12 REFERS TO THE UNSAVED
BEING JUDGED THROUGHOUT THE HISTORY OF THIS WORLD.
HOWEVER,
LET’S LOOK CAREFULLY AT VERSES 11 & 12 TOGETHER. WE READ THERE:
11 ¶ And I saw a great white throne, and
him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and
there was found
12
And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books
were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and
the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books,
according to their works.
NOTICE
THAT VERSE 11 SAYS “from
whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found
THIS
IS TALKING ABOUT WHEN THIS EARTH AND UNIVERSE ARE GONE. THEY NO LONGER EXIST.
VERSE 11 GIVES THE SETTING OF VERSES 11 TO 15. THE SETTING IS WHEN THIS EARTH
AND UNIVERSE HAVE ALREADY PASSED AWAY. THAT IS AFTER THE DESTRUCTION OF
THIS UNIVERSE TALKED ABOUT IN 2 PETER 3:10-12.
REVELATION
20:12 IS TALKING ABOUT THE UNSAVED, THE DEAD, STANDING BEFORE GOD AFTER
THIS PRESENT EARTH AND UNIVERSE HAVE BEEN DESTROYED.
THE
LANGUAGE IS PARALLEL TO WHAT WE READ IN REVELATION 21:1-2:
1 ¶ And I saw a new heaven and a new
earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was
no
2
And I John saw the
IN
VERSE 1 GOD TELLS US ABOUT A NEW HEAVEN AND A NEW EARTH.
GOD
ALSO TELLS US THAT “the
first earth were passed away”. THIS IS REFERRING TO WHAT WE READ
ABOUT IN 2 PETER 3:10-12 ABOUT THE BURNING UP OF THIS PRESENT EARTH AND
UNIVERSE.
THEN
IN VERSE 2, WE READ ABOUT THE BODY OF BELIEVERS, CALLED “the
THIS
IS PARALLEL TO WHAT WE READ IN REVELATION 20:11-12:
11 ¶ And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat
on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found
12 And I saw
the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and
another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were
judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their
works.
THE
STRUCTURE OF REVELATION 20:11-12 IS PARALLEL TO THAT OF REVELATION 21:1-2.
IN
VERSE 11 WE SEE THAT GOD IS SITTING UPON HIS THRONE. THEN WE READ THAT “from whose face the earth and the heaven fled
away; and there was found
THEN
IN VERSE 12, WE READ ABOUT THE UNSAVED, THE DEAD, STANDING BEFORE GOD.
JUST
AS REVELATION 21:2 IS TELLING US THAT THE TRUE BELIEVERS, THE BODY OF CHRIST IS
COMING DOWN OUT OF HEAVEN AFTER THIS UNIVERSE HAS BEEN DESTROYED, REVELATION
20:12 IS TELLING US THAT THE UNSAVED, THE DEAD, ARE STANDING BEFORE GOD AFTER
THIS UNIVERSE HAS PASSED AWAY.
THEREFORE,
THE UNSAVED CONSCIOUSLY STAND BEFORE GOD AND ARE CAST INTO THE
THIS
SHOWS US THAT THE
THIS
MATERIAL IS COVERED IN MORE DETAIL IN THE STUDY AT THIS LINK:
http://www.isannihilationtrue.com/dayandnight.htm
]
2. In Revelation 20:10, the devil and his dominion are "tormented
day and night forever and ever." What is "forever and ever" in
Revelation 20:10? The verse clearly says. Torment. The torment continues
forever and ever. Where do you get the Biblical justification to
"add" the word "annihilation" before "forever and
ever?"
A. This has been answered previously that they are tormented "day and
night" (while time exists) into ever and ever.
[YOU
MENTIONED “"day and night" (while time exists) ”
WHEN
WE READ A PHRASE LIKE “day and night” IT IS EASY FOR US TO THINK THAT THIS
PHRASE LIMITS THE DURATION IN QUESTION TO THIS WORLD’S EXISTENCE.
THIS
MAY SEEM REASONABLE AT FIRST
THE
ARGUMENT IS THAT “DAY AND NIGHT” REFERS TO THE TIME KEEPERS OF THIS UNIVERSE.
THEREFORE, BECAUSE THE PHRASE “DAY AND NIGHT” IS USED AS A TIME KEEPER OF THIS
UNIVERSE THEN THIS PHRASE LIMITS THE DURATION IN QUESTION TO THIS WORLD’S
EXISTENCE.
LET’S
TEST THIS LINE OF REASONING IN THE BIBLE.
WE
READ IN ISAIAH 66:22-23:
22 For as the
new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith
the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.
23 And it
shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one
sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.
ISAIAH
66:22-23 IS TALKING ABOUT THE NEW HEAVENS AND THE NEW EARTH IN ETERNITY FUTURE.
WE SEE THE REFERENCE IN VERSE 22, “For
as the new heavens and the new earth”. ALSO, NOTICE THAT GOD IS
TALKING ABOUT THE OLD TESTAMENT CEREMONIAL LAWS WHICH CAN NO LONGER APPLY IN
THIS WORLD. ISAIAH 66:22-23 CANNOT BE TALKING ABOUT THIS WORLD BECAUSE ALL OF
THE OLD TESTAMENT CEREMONIAL LAWS WERE COMPLETED IN CHRIST.
WITHOUT
ANY DOUBT, ISAIAH 66:22-23 IS TALKING ABOUT ETERNITY FUTURE. HOWEVER, NOTICE
THAT GOD TALKS ABOUT “from one new
moon to another”. THAT IS A PERIOD OF TIME OF 29 OR 30 DAYS OR “DAY
AND NIGHT” CYCLES.
ALSO,
NOTICE THAT GOD TALKS ABOUT “from one
sabbath to another”. THAT IS A PERIOD OF 7 DAYS OR 7 “DAY AND NIGHT”
CYCLES.
THE
PHRASES “from one new moon to another”
AND “from one sabbath to another”,
LIKE THE PHRASE “DAY AND NIGHT”, ARE USED AS TIME KEEPERS IN THIS WORLD.
IN
ISAIAH 66:22-23, GOD IS USING FIGURES OR TIME KEEPERS FROM THIS WORLD TO SPEAK
ABOUT ETERNITY FUTURE. IN THIS PASSAGE, GOD IS SHOWING THAT HE DOES USE FIGURES
FROM THE TIME KEEPERS OF THIS WORLD TO SPEAK ABOUT ETERNITY FUTURE.
WE
READ IN ZECHARIAH 14:1-2, 16-17:
1 ¶ Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil
shall be divided in the midst of thee.
2 For I will
gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken,
and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go
forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from
the city.
…
16 ¶ And it shall come to pass, that every one that
is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from
year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of
tabernacles.
17 And it
shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto
ONLY
VERSES 1-2 AND 16-17 WERE COPIED TO SAVE SPACE.
THE
CONTEXT OF ALL OF ZECHARIAH 14 IS JUDGMENT DAY AND THE END OF THE WORLD. WE SEE
THIS CONTEXT STARTING OUT IN VERSE 1.
IN
VERSE 16 GOD TALKS ABOUT THE “feast of tabernacles”. IN THIS WORLD THERE CAN NO LONGER BE THE “feast of tabernacles” BECAUSE THAT WAS PART OF THE OLD TESTAMENT
CEREMONIAL LAW SYSTEM THAT WAS COMPLETED IN CHRIST ABOUT 2,000 YEARS AGO.
THE
REFERENCE TO THE “feast of
tabernacles” IN ZECHARIAH 14:16 IS
LIKE THE REFERENCE TO “new moon”
IN ISAIAH 66:23. BOTH VERSES ARE USING THESE TERMS SYMBOLICALLY AND ARE TALKING
ABOUT THE NEW HEAVENS AND NEW EARTH.
BACK
IN ZECHARIAH 14:16, GOD TALKS ABOUT THE PEOPLE GOING UP “from year to year” TO KEEP “feast of tabernacles”.
THIS
IS FIGURATIVE LANGUAGE TO REFER TO ETERNITY FUTURE. NOTICE THAT GOD USES THE
LANGUAGE OF THE TIME KEEPERS OF THIS WORLD: “from year to year”.
THE
TERM “from year
to year”, LIKE THE TERM “DAY AND
NIGHT”, IS USED AS A TIME KEEPER IN THIS WORLD.
GOD
IS GIVING US EXAMPLES OF FIGURES OF THE TIME KEEPERS OF THIS WORLD, LIKE “from year to year”, “from one
new moon to another” AND “from
one sabbath to another”, TO REFER TO ETERNITY FUTURE.
THEREFORE,
THE TERM “DAY AND NIGHT”, WHICH IS ANOTHER FIGURE TAKEN FROM THE TIME
KEEPERS OF THIS WORLD, DOES NOT LIMIT THE DURATION TO THIS WORLD’S EXISTENCE.
IF
WE SAY THAT THE TERM “DAY AND NIGHT” LIMITS DURATION TO THIS WORLD’S
EXISTENCE BECAUSE IT IS USED AS A TIME KEEPER OF THIS WORLD, THEN WE HAVE TO
SAY THAT ISAIAH 66:22-23 AND ZECHARIAH 14:16 ARE LIMITED TO THIS WORLD’S
EXISTENCE BECAUSE THEY ALSO USE TIME KEEPERS OF THIS WORLD. HOWEVER, THE
CONTEXT OF THOSE VERSES SHOWS THAT THIS IS NOT TRUE.
THEREFORE,
THE TERM “DAY AND NIGHT” DOES NOT LIMIT DURATION TO THIS WORLD’S
EXISTENCE.
GOD
GIVES FURTHER ASSURANCE OF THIS TRUTH IN ISAIAH 34:9-10. WE READ THERE:
9 ¶ And the streams thereof shall be turned into
pitch, and the dust thereof into brimstone, and the land thereof shall become
burning pitch.
10 It shall
not be quenched night nor day; the smoke thereof shall go up for ever: from
generation to generation it shall lie waste; none shall pass through it for
ever and ever.
ISAIAH
34:9-10 IS TALKING ABOUT THE FIRES OF GOD’S WRATH. IT SAYS THAT THE FIRES OF
GOD’S WRATH SHALL NOT BE QUENCHED “night nor day”.
LITERALLY IN THE HEBREW IT IS “night AND day”.
WE
READ IN THE FOLLOWING FOUR VERSES FROM MARK 9 THAT THE FIRES OF GOD’S WRATH
WILL NEVER BE QUENCHED:
Mark 9:44
Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
Mark 9:45 And
if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into
life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall
be quenched:
Mark 9:46
Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
Mark 9:48 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is
not quenched.
THESE
FOUR VERSES FROM MARK 9 MAKE IT CLEAR THAT THE FIRES OF GOD’S WRATH WILL NEVER
BE QUENCHED.
BACK
IN ISAIAH 34:10 GOD IS SPEAKING ABOUT THOSE SAME FIRES OF HIS WRATH AND SAYS
THAT THEY SHALL NOT BE QUENCHED “night AND day”.
WITH
THE HELP OF MARK 9, WE KNOW THAT THE FIRES OF GOD’S WRATH SHALL NOT BE QUENCHED
“night AND
day” AND THAT CONTINUES FOREVERMORE.
IN
ISAIAH 34:10, GOD IS GIVING A VERSE WITH THE PHRASE “night AND day” TO DESCRIBE SOMETHING THAT GOES ON FOREVERMORE.
WITH
THE BIBLE AS OUR GUIDE, WE KNOW THAT GOD USES TERMS FROM THIS WORLD’S TIME
KEEPERS, INCLUDING THE TERM “night AND day”,
TO SPEAK OF THINGS THAT GO ON FOREVERMORE.
THEREFORE,
THE BIBLE IS INSTRUCTING US THAT THE TERM “night AND day”
IN REVELATION 20:10 DOES NOT PROVIDE ANY LIMIT TO THE DURATION.
THIS
MATERIAL IS COVERED IN MORE DETAIL IN THE STUDY AT THIS LINK:
http://www.isannihilationtrue.com/dayandnight.htm
LET’S
CONSIDER THE PHRASE “FOR EVER AND EVER” THAT WE FIND IN REVELATION
20:10.
SOME
ARE SAYING THAT THE PHRASE “FOR EVER AND EVER” IN REVELATION 20:10 COULD
BE TRANSLATED “TO EVER AND EVER”.
THE
SAME ARGUMENT IS MADE FOR REVELATION 19:3 WHERE WE READ:
And again they said, Alleluia.
And her smoke rose up for ever and ever.
IT
IS TRUE THAT THE GREEK PREPOSITION TRANSLATED “FOR” IN REVELATION 19:3 &
20:10 IS TRANSLATED “TO” IN OTHER VERSES.
HOWEVER,
THIS PREPOSITION IS TRANSLATED MORE THAN 15 DIFFERENT WAYS AND USED MORE THAN
1500 TIMES IN THE BIBLE. IF WE JUST LOOK AT THAT PREPOSITION, WE COULD OBTAIN
THE FOLLOWING TRANSLATIONS:
“tormented day and night of
ever and ever”
“tormented day and night BY
ever and ever”
“tormented day and night AT
ever and ever”
“tormented day and night AMONG
ever and ever”
“tormented day and night WHEREFORE
ever and ever”
“tormented day and night AGAINST
ever and ever”
“tormented day and night BECOME
ever and ever”
“tormented day and night from
ever and ever”
…
THESE
ARE SOME EXAMPLES.
DID
GOD LEAVE US IN THE DARK AS TO WHICH IS THE RIGHT TRANSLATION?
ACTUALLY,
GOD DID NOT LEAVE US IN THE DARK ABOUT THE RIGHT TRANSLATION.
FOR
THIS STUDY OF THE PHASE “FOR EVER AND EVER”, LET’S CONSIDER TWO VERSES:
Revelation 19:3
And again they said, Alleluia. And her smoke rose up for ever and ever.
Revelation 20:10
And the devil that deceived them was cast into the
THE
PHRASE TRANSLATED “FOR EVER AND EVER” IN REVELATION 19:3 AND REVELATION
20:10 IS A 5 WORD PHRASE IN THE GREEK LANGUAGE. THAT EXACT 5 WORD GREEK PHRASE
IS FOUND 20 TIMES IN THE NEW TESTAMENT, WITH THE SAME 5 WORDS, SAME SPELLINGS.
IT IS FOUND IN THE ABOVE 2 VERSES AND IN 18 OTHER VERSES.
To
download the Greek font used, right click the link below. Select ‘Save Target
as’, then use the Control Panel in Windows to install the font.
IN
THE GREEK, THE PHRASE IS “eiv touv
aiwnav twn aiwnwn”.
THIS
EXACT GREEK PHRASE IS USED EXACTLY 20 TIMES IN THE BIBLE.
FOR
18 OF THOSE TIMES, IT IS USED IN ONLY ONE OF THREE DIFFERENT WAYS:
1.
TO SPEAK OF HOW LONG GOD LIVES
2.
TO SPEAK OF HOW LONG GOD RECEIVES PRAISE, GLORY, HONOR, ETC.
3.
TO SPEAK OF HOW LONG THE TRUE BELIEVERS REIGN WITH CHRIST.
FOR
EACH OF THOSE
IT
IS NOT POSSIBLE THAT GOD LIVES “TO EVER AND EVER”. GOD LIVES FOREVERMORE.
IT IS NOT POSSIBLE THAT PRAISE, GLORY, HONOR, ETC. FOR GOD COULD EVER END. GOD
WILL RECEIVE PRAISE, GLORY, HONOR, ETC. FOREVERMORE WITHOUT END.
IT
IS NOT POSSIBLE THAT THE TRUE BELIEVERS ONLY REIGN “TO EVER AND EVER”. THE TRUE
BELIEVERS WILL REIGN WITH CHRIST FOREVERMORE.
IN
EACH OF THOSE 18 CASES, THIS 5 WORD GREEK PHRASE MUST MEAN “FOREVERMORE”. NONE
OF THOSE 3 EVENTS CAN EVER END.
IT
IS NOT POSSIBLE THAT GOD LIVES “TO EVER AND EVER” NOR CAN PRAISE, GLORY AND
HONOR TO GOD EVER END. NEITHER IS IT POSSIBLE THAT THE TRUE BELIEVERS REIGN
WITH CHRIST “TO EVER AND EVER”.
WE
WANT TO REMEMBER FROM 2 PETER 1:20 THAT THE BIBLE IS NOT SUBJECT TO “private interpretation”. GOD DEFINES WORDS AND PHRASES BY HOW HE USES THEM
IN THE BIBLE ACCORDING TO 1 CORINTHIANS 2:13.
THEREFORE,
GOD HAS DEFINED THAT THE DURATION OF REVELATION 19:3 AND 20:10 MUST BE AS LONG
AS GOD LIVES, AS LONG AS GOD RECEIVES PRAISE, GLORY, HONOR, ETC. AND AS LONG AS
THE TRUE BELIEVERS REIGN WITH CHRIST. NONE OF THOSE 3 CAN COME TO AN END.
THEREFORE,
GOD IS TEACHING THAT THE PHRASE “FOR EVER AND EVER” OF REVELATION 19:3 AND
20:10 MUST TRULY BE FOREVERMORE.
IF
WE SAY THAT THE GREEK PHRASE TRANSLATED “FOR EVER AND EVER” IN REVELATION 19:3
& 20:10 COULD HAVE AN END, THEN WE ARE SAYING THAT GOD MIGHT NOT LIVE
FOREVERMORE, OR PRAISE, GLORY AND HONOR TO GOD COULD END OR THE TRUE BELIEVERS
MIGHT NOT REIGN FOREVERMORE WITH GOD. HOWEVER, NONE OF THOSE THINGS ARE
POSSIBLE.
THIS
MATERIAL IS COVERED IN MORE DETAIL IN THE STUDIES AT THESE LINKS:
http://www.isannihilationtrue.com/forever1.htm
]
Nobody is writing in the word
"annihilation" into the Bible – that is simply a term to describe the
final and total destruction of the unsaved, as we read about in Jude 7 and 2
Peter 2:6 (I'm giving Biblical justification for using the term, not for
"adding" the word to the Bible):
Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving
themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth
for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire. Jude 7
And turning the cities of Sodom and Gommorha into ashes condemned them with an
overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly; 2
Peter 2:6
Notice how God speaks of turning Sodom and Gommorha into ashes in 2 Peter 2:6,
which explains what is meant by their suffering the vengeance of eternal fire
in Jude 7.
[LET’S
LOOK AT JUDE 7.
THERE
ARE TWO WORDS THAT HAVE BEEN WRONGLY TRANSLATED IN OUR BIBLE IN JUDE 7 AND THIS
IS CAUSING PEOPLE TO MISUNDERSTAND WHAT THIS VERSE IS TEACHING.
THE
WORD “EXAMPLE” IS ONLY FOUND IN THIS VERSE. HOWEVER, THE EQUIVALENT VERB
IS FOUND IN COLOSSIANS 2:15. WE READ THERE:
And having spoiled
principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing
over them in it.
IN
COLOSSIANS 2:15 THE VERB FORM OF THE WORD “EXAMPLE” FROM JUDE 7 IS
TRANSLATED “SHEW” OR “SHOW”. NOTICE THE PRESENCE OF THE WORD “OPENLY”
WHICH REINFORCES THE IDEA OF A “SHOWING”.
THE
CROSS WAS AN OPEN “SHOWING” THAT CHRIST WAS VICTORIOUS OVER SATAN.
IN
THE SAME WAY, THE BURNING OF
THE
BIGGER TRANSLATION PROBLEM IS WITH THIS WORD TRANSLATED “SUFFERING”.
THIS WORD IS ALSO FOUND ONLY ONE TIME, WHICH IS JUDE 7.
HOWEVER,
IT IS MADE OF TWO COMMON WORDS. FIRST, THE VERB “TO HAVE” AND SECOND A
PREPOSITION WHICH IS COMMONLY TRANSLATED “UNDER”.
LITERALLY,
THIS WORD MEANS “TO HAVE UNDER”.
GOD
DOES DIRECT US HOW TO UNDERSTAND THIS WORD IN JUDE 7 THAT IS TRANSLATED “SUFFERING”
WHICH LITERALLY MEANS “HAVING UNDER”.
THE
TWO WORDS THAT MAKE UP THIS WORD TRANSLATED “SUFFERING” IN JUDE 7 ARE FOUND IN
LUKE 7:8. WE READ THERE:
For I also am a man set under authority, having <2192> under <5259> me soldiers, and I say unto
one, Go, and he goeth; and to another, Come, and he cometh; and to my servant,
Do this, and he doeth it.
THE
MAN SPEAKING WAS A CENTURION WHO CAME TO JESUS FOR THE HEALING OF HIS SERVANT.
THIS
MAN RECOGNIZES THAT HE IS UNDER AUTHORITY.
THEN
WE READ WITH THE SAME TWO GREEK WORDS THAT THIS CENTURION IS “HAVING UNDER”
HIM SOLDIERS.
THE
SAME STATEMENT IS ALSO IN MATTHEW 8:9 WITH THE SAME TWO GREEK WORDS, “HAVING
UNDER”. WE READ THERE:
For I am a man under authority, having <2192> soldiers under <5259> me: and I say to this man,
Go, and he goeth; and to another, Come, and he cometh; and to my servant, Do
this, and he doeth it.
IN
MATTHEW 8:9 AND LUKE 7:8, GOD IS DEFINING WHAT THIS WORD TRANSLATED “SUFFERING”
REALLY MEANS.
FROM
THE CONTEXT OF THESE VERSES WE CAN TELL THAT THIS WORD MEANS “TO BE SUBJECT
TO”.
THOSE
SOLDIERS WERE “SUBJECT TO” THE CENTURION. HE TELLS ONE TO GO AND THAT
MAN GOES. HE TELLS ANOTHER COME AND THAT MAN COMES. THESE SOLDIERS WERE “SUBJECT
TO” THE CENTURION.
THE
SOLDIERS WERE NOT SUFFERING AT THE HAND OF THE CENTURION. RATHER, THEY WERE “SUBJECT”
TO HIM.
THIS
IS A BIG TRANSLATOR ERROR. THE WORD TRANSLATED “SUFFERING” SHOULD HAVE BEEN
TRANSLATED EITHER LITERALLY AS “HAVING UNDER” OR AS “SUBJECT TO”.
AS
A RESULT OF THESE TRANSLATION ERRORS, PLEASE ARE MISUNDERSTANDING WHAT JUDE 7
IS SAYING.
A
CORRECT TRANSLATION OF JUDE 7 IS:
Even as Sodom and Gomorrha,
and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to
fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for A SHOWING, HAVING UNDER (OR BEING SUBJECT TO) the
vengeance of eternal fire.
WHEN
WE FIX THE TRANSLATION ERRORS IN OUR ENGLISH BIBLE, WE FIND THAT JUDE 7 IS NOT
TEACHING THAT THE BURNING OF
RATHER,
GOD IS TEACHING TWO THINGS:
1.
THE BURNING OF
2.
THE FACT THAT THEY WERE BURNED-UP SHOWS THAT THEY ARE “HAVING UNDER” OR
ARE “SUBJECT” TO THE VENGEANCE OF ETERNAL FIRE.
JUDE
7 IS NOT SAYING THAT
2
PETER 2:6 ALSO TALKS ABOUT THE DESTRUCTION OF
WE
READ IN 2 PETER 2:6:
And turning the cities of
GOD
TALKS ABOUT
THIS
SAME GREEK WORD IS TRANSLATED “EXAMPLE” IN HEBREWS 8:5 AND “PATTERN”
IN HEBREWS 9:23 TO SPEAK OF THE CEREMONIAL LAWS.
WE
READ IN THESE TWO VERSES:
Hebrews 8:5 Who serve unto the example <5262> and shadow of
heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the
tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the
pattern shewed to thee in the mount.
Hebrews 9:23 It was therefore necessary that the patterns <5262> of things in the
heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with
better sacrifices than these.
IN
BOTH OF THESE TWO VERSES, THE WORD “ensample”
IN 2 PETER 2:6 IS USED TO TALK ABOUT THE OLD TESTAMENT CEREMONIAL LAWS.
BY
USING THIS SAME GREEK WORD, GOD IS SAYING THAT THE BURNING OF
THE
OLD TESTAMENT CEREMONIAL LAWS WERE A “PATTERN” OF GOSPEL TRUTH BUT NOT THE
ACTUAL GOSPEL TRUTH ITSELF. GOD IS SAYING THE SAME THING ABOUT THE DESTRUCTION
OF
FOR
EXAMPLE, WHEN A BURNT OFFERING WAS MADE, THAT OFFERING DID NOT PAY FOR ANY
SINS. RATHER, IT WAS A “PATTERN” OF THE PAYMENT THAT THE LORD JESUS
WOULD MAKE FOR SINS.
BY
USING THIS SAME GREEK WORD IN 2 PETER 2:6, GOD IS SAYING THAT THE BURNING OF
SODOM AND GOMORRAH WAS LIKE A BURNT OFFERING OR ANY OF THE OLD TESTAMENT
CEREMONIAL LAWS.
THE
BURNING OF
THE
FACT THAT THE BURNT OFFERING BECAME ASHES DID NOT MAKE ANY PAYMENT FOR SIN. THE
BURNT OFFERING WAS A “PATTERN” OR ILLUSTRATION OF THE PAYMENT OF SIN,
BUT NOT THE ACTUAL PAYMENT. IN THE SAME WAY, THE FACT THAT
SO,
WHEN WE PUT JUDE 7 AND 2 PETER 2:6 TOGETHER WE LEARN 3 THINGS:
1.
THE DESTRUCTION OF
2.
THE DESTRUCTION OF
3.
THEIR DESTRUCTION WAS A “PATTERN” OF THE WRATH OF GOD LIKE THE OLD
TESTAMENT CEREMONIAL LAWS WERE “PATTERNS” OF GOSPEL TRUTH. THESE ITEMS
ARE NOT THE ACTUAL GOSPEL TRUTH BUT A “PATTERN” OR ILLUSTRATION OF THAT
TRUTH.
JUDE
7 AND 2 PETER 2:6 ARE COVERED IN MORE DETAIL IN THIS STUDY:
http://www.isannihilationtrue.com/jude7.htm
]
A. Nobody has changed the word
"torment" to "destruction." The issue is the assumption
that "smoke of their torment" means the torment itself lasts forever,
and from that concluding we've changed the word torment to destruction. To say,
"that means the torment goes forever and ever" is a personal
interpretation. But the verse does not assume the torment lasts forever. It
simply says the "smoke" of their torment ascends up to ever and ever,
it does not say that that means the torment itself goes forever and ever. So
the word "torment" need not be changed to "destruction".
The Bible itself teaches that the torment endures until there is final
destruction.
[
THE QUESTION IS DOES THE PHRASE “the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and
ever” IN REVELATION 14:11 OR THE
PHRASE “And her
smoke rose up for ever and ever” IN
REVELATION 19:3 TEACH THAT THE UNSAVED ARE CONSCIOUSLY AFFLICTED FOREVERMORE?
1
CORINTHIANS 2:13 TEACHES THAT GOD DEFINES TERMS BY HOW HE USES THEM IN THE
BIBLE.
GOD
CALL HIMSELF A “CONSUMING FIRE” (HEBREWS 12:29). GOD IS NOT LITERALLY A
FIRE, BUT WE CAN LOOK AT THE AFFLICTION AND DESTRUCTION OF A FIRE AND GET A
PICTURE OF THE WRATH OF GOD.
REGARDING
THE UNSAVED AND THE FIRES OF GOD’S WRATH, WE READ VERSES LIKE JEREMIAH 5:14:
Wherefore thus saith the LORD
God of hosts, Because ye speak this word, behold, I will make my words in thy
mouth fire, and this people wood, and it shall devour them.
IN
JEREMIAH 5:14 GOD TYPIFIES HIS WORD AS “FIRE” AND THE UNSAVED AS “WOOD”.
THE UNSAVED ARE NOT LITERALLY “WOOD”, JUST LIKE JESUS IS NOT LITERALLY A
“LAMB” (JOHN 1:29).
HOWEVER,
IN THIS ANALOGY, GOD TYPIFIES THE UNSAVED AS “WOOD”. GOD IS TELLING US
TO LOOK AT A PIECE OF WOOD IN A FIRE TO UNDERSTAND THE GOSPEL TRUTH. WHEN WOOD
IS PUT ON THE FIRE, IT BURNS AND PRODUCES SMOKE.
ONCE
THE WOOD IS ALL GONE, THEN THE WOOD STOPS PRODUCING SMOKE. THE SMOKE FINALLY
COOLS OFF AND STOPS ASCENDING.
HOWEVER,
GOD SAYS IN THESE TWO VERSES THAT THE SMOKE OF THE UNSAVED ASCENDS FOR EVER AND
EVER:
Revelation 14:11
And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they
have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever
receiveth the mark of his name.
Revelation 19:3
And again they said, Alleluia. And her smoke rose up for ever and ever.
NOTICE
THAT REVELATION 19:3 REFERS TO “her smoke”
WHICH CLEARLY TIES THE SMOKE TO THE UNSAVED. IT IS THE SMOKE OF THE UNSAVED.
BY
SAYING THAT THE SMOKE OF THE UNSAVED ASCENDS UP FOREVERMORE, GOD IS TEACHING
THAT THE UNSAVED STILL EXIST IN THE FIRES OF GOD’S WRATH FOREVERMORE. GOD
TEACHES THAT BY DIRECTING US IN JEREMIAH 5:14 TO LOOK AT A PIECE OF WOOD IN A
FIRE.
ONCE
A PIECE OF WOOD IN A FIRE IS FINALLY GONE, ITS SMOKE FINALLY COOLS OFF AND
STOPS ASCENDING. AS IN MANY VERSES, GOD IS USING AN ANALOGY FROM THIS WORLD TO TEACH
GOSPEL TRUTH.
ONCE
THE UNSAVED ARE GONE, THEIR SMOKE FINALLY COOLS OFF AND STOPS ASCENDING.
HOWEVER, GOD SAYS THAT IT NEVER STOPS ASCENDING. THEREFORE, GOD IS TEACHING
THAT THE UNSAVED WILL REMAIN IN THE FIRES OF GOD’S WRATH FOREVERMORE. THOSE
FIRES INCLUDE TORMENT, A CONSCIOUS AFFLICTION.
THERE
IS
GOD
IS TEACHING THAT THE UNSAVED WILL CONTINUE TO EXIST AND BE CONSCIOUSLY
AFFLICTED FOREVERMORE.
PEOPLE
WILL SAY, “THAT IS YOUR INTERPRETATION”. HOWEVER, IT IS NOT. GOD HAS PROVIDED
VERSES LIKE JEREMIAH 5:14 TO GIVE THE INTERPRETATION.
GOD
IS TELLING US TO LOOK AT WOOD IN A FIRE. THERE IS
GOD
IS TEACHING IN THESE VERSES THAT THE UNSAVED WILL BE CONSCIOUSLY AFFLICTED
FOREVERMORE.
GOD
HAS WRITTEN THIS INFORMATION IN SUCH
WE
CAN SEE ANOTHER ILLUSTRATION OF THIS POINT IF WE CONSIDER HOW GOD TEACHES THE
COMMAND TO COME OUT OF THE CHURCH DURING THE GREAT TRIBULATION.
WE
READ IN MATTHEW 24:15:
When ye therefore shall see
the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the
MATTHEW
24:15 IS A COMMAND TO THE TRUE BELIEVERS TO LEAVE THE CHURCH DURING THE GREAT
TRIBULATION. HOWEVER, IT IS NOT WRITTEN IN CLEAR LANGUAGE LIKE “WHEN THE
GREAT TRIBULATION COMES, YOU MUST LEAVE YOUR CHURCH”. GOD DOES NOT GIVE ANY
STATEMENTS LIKE THAT.
GOD
GIVES STATEMENTS LIKE MATTHEW 24:15 WITH THE COMMAND TO LEAVE THE CHURCH
WRITTEN IN PARABOLIC LANGUAGE. HOWEVER, GOD STILL EXPECTS US TO OBEY THIS
COMMAND. WE ARE NOT ALLOWED TO SAY “THAT IS YOUR INTERPRETATION THAT MATTHEW
24:15 IS A COMMAND TO LEAVE THE CHURCH”.
NO.
GOD EXPECTS US TO COMPARE SCRIPTURE WITH SCRIPTURE AND SEE THAT MATTHEW 24:15
AND OTHER VERSES ARE TEACHING THAT DURING THE GREAT TRIBULATION, THE TRUE
BELIEVERS ARE COMMANDED TO LEAVE THE CHURCH.
PEOPLE
HAVE SAID “I AM NOT GOING TO LEAVE THE CHURCH UNTIL YOU GIVE ME A BIBLE VERSE
THAT SAYS ‘LEAVE THE CHURCH’ ”. GOD DOES NOT PROVIDE SUCH A VERSE, BUT GOD
EXPECTS US TO COMPARE SCRIPTURE WITH SCRIPTURE AND SEE THAT MATTHEW 24:15 AND
OTHER VERSES ARE COMMANDING THAT WE LEAVE THE CHURCH DURING THE GREAT
TRIBULATION. GOD WILL NOT ALLOW US TO SAY “THAT IS YOUR INTERPRETATION”.
CONCERNING
THOSE THAT RESPOND TO VERSES LIKE MATTHEW 24:15 BY SAYING “THAT IS YOUR
INTERPRETATION. I WILL NOT LEAVE THE CHURCH UNTIL I SEE A VERSE THAT PLAINLY
SAYS ‘YOU MUST LEAVE THE CHURCH’ “, DO THESE PEOPLE HAVE TRUTH?
NO.
THEY DO NOT.
GOD
HAS WRITTEN THE
IN
THE SAME WAY, GOD HAS PROVIDED VERSES LIKE REVELATION 14:11 AND REVELATION 19:3
THAT WITH THE HELP OF VERSES LIKE JEREMIAH 5:14 TEACH THAT THE UNSAVED WILL BE
CONSCIOUSLY IN THE FIRES OF GOD’S WRATH FOREVERMORE. BUT, THEY ARE WRITTEN IN
SUCH
ON
ANOTHER POINT, YOU SAID “The Bible itself teaches that the torment endures
until there is final destruction.”
WHEN
WE READ THE WORD “DESTRUCTION” WE OFTEN THINK IN OUR MINDS THAT “DESTRUCTION =
ANNIHILATION”. HOWEVER, LIKE ALL WORDS, GOD DEFINES THEM BY HOW HE USES THEM IN
THE BIBLE.
TO
KEEP THIS EMAIL SHORT, JUST ONE EXAMPLE WILL BE GIVEN.
WE
FIND A COMMON HEBREW WORD TRANSLATED “DESTROY” USED 7 TIMES IN DEUTERONOMY
28:15-68 (VERSES 20, 24, 45, 48, 51, 61 & 63). IN EACH OF THOSE VERSES THIS
HEBREW WORD TRANSLATED “DESTROY” IS NOT IN THE PAST OR PERFECT TENSE. IT IS IN
A TENSE THAT INDICATES AN ON-GOING ACTION, AN ON-GOING “DESTROYING”.
DEUTERONOMY
28:15-68 CONTAINS MANY WORDS THAT SIGNIFY CONSCIOUS AFFLICTION. A CAREFUL STUDY
OF THIS PASSAGE SHOWS THAT IT IS DESCRIBING AN ON-GOING “DESTROYING” OF
CONSCIOUS AFFLICTION.
DEUTERONOMY
28:15-68 IS EXAMINED IN MORE DETAIL IN THIS STUDY:
http://www.isannihilationtrue.com/proofs1.htm
SEARCH
FOR THE PHRASE “DEUTERONOMY 28” IN THE ABOVE LINK.
ANOTHER
STUDY THAT EXAMINES HOW GOD USES WORDS LIKE “DESTROY” REGARDING THE UNSAVED IS:
http://www.isannihilationtrue.com/manywords.htm
IN
THESE TWO STUDIES THERE ARE A NUMBER VERSES GIVEN THAT SHOW THAT THE BIBLE
TEACHES THAT THE DESTRUCTION GOD PLANS FOR THE UNSAVED IS A CONTINUOUS
DESTROYING OF CONSCIOUS AFFLICTION. ]
Weeping and gnashing of teeth is
defined in Luke 13:27-28 and Acts 7:54. Like the rich man was sorrowfully
tormented at seeing Lazarus in Abraham's bosom while he himself was without
eternal life (in a parable), so the unsaved who remain will be so tormented
when they see the believers with Christ at the end. They are sorrowful and
angry as well:
[REGARDING
THE RICH MAN AND LAZARUS IN LUKE 16:19-31, IF WE READ THAT PASSAGE CAREFULLY,
WE LEARN THAT LAZARUS REPRESENTS SOMEONE WHO DIES FROM THIS WORLD BEFORE THE
RAPTURE. LAZARUS DOES NOT REPRESENT SOMEONE WHO IS HERE ON MAY 21, 2011.
LIKEWISE,
THE RICH MAN REPRESENTS SOMEONE WHO DIES FROM THIS WORLD BEFORE THE RAPTURE. HE
DOES NOT REPRESENT SOMEONE WHO ENTERS THE DAY OF JUDGMENT ON MAY 21,
2011.
LUKE
16:19-31 TEACHES THAT FOR THE SAVED, THERE IS CONSCIOUS BLISS WHEN THEY LEAVE
THIS WORLD. LIKEWISE, IT TEACHES THAT FOR THE UNSAVED THERE IS CONSCIOUS
AFFLICTION AFTER THEY LEAVE THIS WORLD. NEITHER LAZARUS NOR THE RICH MAN
REPRESENT SOMEONE WHO IS IN THIS WORLD ON MAY 21, 2011.
IF
WE STUDY THIS PASSAGE CAREFULLY, THERE ARE NO CONTRADICTIONS NOR STATEMENTS
THAT DO NOT FIT. WE CAN UNDERSTAND THE PASSAGE WITHOUT ANY PROBLEM IF WE FOLLOW
THE BIBLICAL RULE OF COMPARING SCRIPTURE WITH SCRIPTURE.
WE
HAVE A STUDY ON THIS PASSAGE AT:
http://www.isannihilationtrue.com/luke16a.htm
]