FEEDBACK: WHAT IS THE JUDGMENT OF THE UNSAVED?
5/9/11
We
appreciate feedback on the studies posted on this website. It helps us to see if
there is anything on this website that does not agree with the Bible.
Below IS a three part discussion of the judgment of god
that comes upon the unsaved. our response follows the reader’s statements.
THE READER’S statements are IN ITALICS. OUR RESPONSE FOLLOWS.
Death? Is Annihilation True?
Yes!
Re 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second
death.
Death = not life = not alive
...Job 14:10 But man dieth, and wasteth away: yea, man giveth up the ghost, and
where is he?11 As the waters fail from the sea, and the flood decayeth and
drieth up:12 So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more,
they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep.
Psalm 52:5 God shall likewise destroy thee for ever, he shall take thee away,
and pluck thee out of thy dwelling place, and root thee out of the land of the
living. Selah.
Oba 1:16 "For as ye have drunk upon My Holy Mountain, so shall all the
heathen drink continually, yea, they shall drink, and they shall swallow down,
AND THEY SHALL BE AS THOUGH THEY HAD NOT BEEN."
Isaiah 26:14 They are dead, they shall not live; they are deceased, they shall
not rise: therefore hast thou visited and destroyed them, and made all their
memory to perish.
Psa 37:9-10 For evildoers shall be cut off: but those that wait upon the LORD,
they shall inherit the earth. [10] For yet a little while, and the wicked shall
not be: yea, thou shalt diligently consider his place, and it shall not be.
Ps 6:5 For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall
give thee thanks?
Isaiah 38:18 For the grave cannot praise thee, death can [not] celebrate thee:
they that go down into the pit cannot hope for thy truth.
Eccl 3:19 For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one
thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all
one breath; so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity.
Eccl 3:20 All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again.
21 Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast
that goeth downward to the earth?
Jer 51:57 And I will make drunk her princes, and her wise men, her captains,
and her rulers, and her mighty men: and they shall sleep a perpetual sleep, and
not wake, saith the King, whose name is the LORD of hosts.
Isa 33:14 The sinners in Zion are afraid; fearfulness hath surprised the
hypocrites. Who among us shall dwell with the devouring fire? who among us
shall dwell with everlasting burnings?
Psalm 144: 4 Man is like to vanity: his days are as a shadow that passeth away.
Job 34:15 All flesh shall perish together, and man shall turn again unto dust.
Psalm 9:17 The wicked shall be turned into hell, and all the nations that
forget God.
Psalms 1:4 ¶ The ungodly [are] not so: but [are] like the chaff which the wind
driveth away.
Ecclesiastes 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not
any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
The Bible teaches that man will eventually be devoured by fire: “As they gather
silver, and brass, and iron, and lead, and tin, into the midst of the furnace,
to blow the fire upon it, to melt it; so will I gather you in mine anger and in
my fury, and I will leave you there, and melt you. Yea, I will gather you, and
blow upon you in the fire of my wrath, and ye shall be melted in the midst
thereof. As silver is melted in the midst of the furnace, so shall ye be melted
in the midst thereof; and ye shall know that I the Lord have poured out my fury
upon you.” (Ezekiel 22:20-22)
“Thine hand shall find out all thine enemies: thy right hand shall find out
those that hate thee. Thou shalt make them as a fiery oven in the time of thine
anger: the Lord shall swallow them up in his wrath, and the fire shall devour
them.” (Psalm 21:8-9)
“For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud,
yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall
burn them up, saith the Lord of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root
nor branch.” (Malachi 4:1)
“And the people shall be as the burnings of lime: as thorns cut up shall they
be burned in the fire.” (Isaiah 33:12)
This destruction of man is permanent and once again we find that the focus of
the punishment is on our loss of eternal life with God:
“Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the
Lord, and from the glory of his power” (2 Thessalonians 2:19)
Sin brought spiritual death to all of mankind so once unsaved man dies
physically he is both physically and spiritually dead. No part of him remains
alive to continue on. This is why God teaches that man’s death is like an
animal’s:
“I said in mine heart concerning the estate of the sons of men, that God might
manifest them, and that they might see that they themselves are beasts. For
that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth
them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so
that a man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity. All go unto
one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again.” (Ecclesiasts
3:18-20)
“Nevertheless man being in honour abideth not: he is like the beasts that
perish.” (Psalm 49:12)
“Man that is in honour, and understandeth not, is like the beasts that perish.”
(Psalm 49:20)
May God have Mercy on all those who ignorantly desire eternal torment, for the
unsaved unborn babies & new babies, the retarded, the infirm, even the wicked
unsaved, perverts, the hilters of the world with His understanding of eternal
death.
Re 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers,
and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their
part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second
death.
Ps 136:10 To him that smote Egypt in their firstborn: for his mercy endureth
for ever:
Ps 136:12 With a strong hand, and with a stretched out arm: for his mercy
endureth for ever.
Ps 136:15 But overthrew Pharaoh and his host in the Red sea: for his mercy
endureth for ever.
Ps 136:17 To him which smote great kings: for his mercy endureth for ever:
Ps 136:18 And slew famous kings: for his mercy endureth for ever:
Ps 136:19 Sihon king of the Amorites: for his mercy endureth for ever:
Ps 136:20 And Og the king of Bashan: for his mercy endureth for ever:
More than forty five verses speak on this wise of God's Eternal Mercy, even
including the wicked, great kings whom He SLEW!
Now isn't this GREAT MERCY over the corrupt sinful imginations of the minds of
the church teachers, teaching eternal torment?
May God's Perfect Will Be Done!
Most of us would prefer that annihilation was true
and it seems more fair to us in many ways. However, truth is not based upon
what we think or prefer.
The first problem is that people don't understand
the Biblical definition of life and death. Adam and Eve died the day they
sinned (Genesis 2:17). The whole human race is already dead as indicated in
these verses:
Matthew
8:22 But Jesus said unto him, Follow me;
and let the dead bury their dead.
Luke
9:60 Jesus said unto him, Let the dead
bury their dead: but go thou and preach the kingdom of God.
John
5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The
hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of
God: and they that hear shall live.
Romans
7:9-11:
9 For I was alive without the law once: but
when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
10 And the commandment, which was ordained
to life, I found to be unto death.
11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment,
deceived me, and by it slew me.
1
Peter 4:6 For for this cause was the
gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according
to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.
Many more verses teach the same truth that unsaved
man is already dead (Ephesians 2:1,5, Colossians 2:13, …). People quickly
change these verses to say "spiritually dead", but the Bible never uses
that language. The Bible simply says that man in this world is dead. We have to
listen to the Bible when it says that man is already dead.
The word "spiritually" has to do with the
spirit and "physically" has to do with the body. The Bible teaches
that man is already "physically dead" because his body is already
dead. We read that in these verses:
Romans
8:10 And if Christ be in you, the body
is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
1
Corinthians 15:29 Else what shall they
do which are baptized for the dead, if
the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?
Romans 8:10 says that the believer's body is already
dead. If the believer's body is dead, then the unbeliever's body is also dead.
1 Corinthians 15 talks about the resurrection of the
believer's body. Verse 29 is talking about believers in this world. It says 3
times that the believer's body is already dead.
So, the Bible teaches that man is already
"physically dead". The word "physically" has to do with the
body. The believer's body is already dead and therefore the unbeliever's body
is also already dead.
Man is already physically dead, but his body has not
ceased to exist.
Unsaved man's spirit is also dead. Yet the unsaved
still have a spirit. We read that truth in these and other verses.
1
Peter 3:19 By which also he went and
preached unto the spirits in prison;
Psalm
78:8 And might not be as their fathers,
a stubborn and rebellious generation; a generation that set not their heart
aright, and whose spirit was not stedfast with God.
Daniel
2:1-3:
1
¶ And in the second year of the reign of Nebuchadnezzar Nebuchadnezzar dreamed
dreams, wherewith his spirit was troubled, and his sleep brake from him.
2 Then the king commanded to call the magicians,
and the astrologers, and the sorcerers, and the Chaldeans, for to shew the king
his dreams. So they came and stood before the king.
3 And the king said unto them, I have dreamed a
dream, and my spirit was troubled to know the dream.
Each of the above passages describe unsaved people,
yet the passages refer to them as having spirits. So, according to the Bible,
the unsaved are already spiritually and physically dead. That is both their
body and their spirit are dead, yet both their body and their spirit still
exist.
The answer comes when we realize that, according to
the Bible, God Himself is "life". Two verses that teach truth are:
John
11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the
resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet
shall he live:
John
14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way,
the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
Jesus is God and Jesus is life.
Also, the Bible teaches that life for mankind has to
do with his relationship to God as we read in 1 John 5:12:
He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the
Son of God hath not life.
This verse identifies life for mankind with his
relationship to God. We think of "life" or being "alive" as
being conscious. However, the Bible does not define life or alive that way. It
defines life and alive for mankind in terms of his relationship to God.
There are many verses that teach these truths. Here
are a few examples:
John
6:53: Then Jesus said unto them, Verily,
verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink
his blood, ye have no life in you.
The unsaved have no life in them. Do they have no
conscious existence in them? No. But, they do not have God, who is life,
indwelling them.
Matthew
18:8 Wherefore if thy hand or thy foot
offend thee, cut them off, and cast them from thee: it is better for thee to enter
into life halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast
into everlasting fire.
Matthew
18:9 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck
it out, and cast it from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life with
one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire.
Matthew
19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest
thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter
into life, keep the commandments.
The above verses say that upon salvation we
"enter into life". How do we enter into existence upon salvation? We
don't. The unsaved already exist. They have both a body and a spirit. But, upon
salvation we enter into God and all of His blessings. God is life.
Psalms
80:18 So will not we go back from thee:
quicken us, and we will call upon thy
name.
Ephesians
2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were
dead in trespasses and sins;
Ephesians
2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath
quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)
The word "quicken" is the old English word
to "make alive". There are many verses that teach that upon
salvation, God makes us alive. How does God make us exist upon salvation? He
does not. The unsaved already exist.
But, God, who is life, comes to indwell us and guide
us. In that way, we are made alive, because God is life.
There are many more verses like these, but to keep
this email shorter they will not be listed here. You can find many more similar
verses at the links below.
Death, being the opposite of life, is separation,
specifically from God.
The corpse that people see with their eyes is a body
sleeping in the dust. This applies to both the saved and the unsaved (Daniel
12:2, Deuteronomy 31:16, 2 Samuel 7:12, 1 Corinthians 15:51, 1 Kings 14:20,
16:6, 16:28, 22:40, 2 Kings 10:35, 13:9)
The unsaved in this world are "alive"
because while they are in this world, they are not completely cut off from God.
Concerning all mankind in this world, we read in Acts 17:28:
For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as
certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.
The "in him" is "in God". The
context of this verse is all mankind; saved and unsaved. While he is in this
world, man is "in God", he "moves" in God and has his
"being" in God. Unsaved man is not completely separated from God
while he is in this world. But, once his body fails and sleeps in the dust,
becoming an unconscious corpse, Acts 17:28 no longer applies to him. Corpses do
not "move". Unsaved man is no longer "in God". He no longer
"moves" in God, nor has his "being" in God. He is further
separated from God, the Biblical definition of death.
If we study the Bible carefully, we learn that:
1. God is life
2. Life for mankind has to do with his relationship
with God
3. Death, being the opposite of life, is separation,
specifically from God.
4. The corpse is a body sleeping in the dust. The
Bible teaches that those corpses will awake to consciousness.
Yes, the wages of sin is death (Romans 6:23). Man
has already received that punishment. He is already dead, separated from God,
who is life. Right now, he is only partly separated from God. If he remains
unsaved, he will be eternally and completely separated from God, who is life.
This is the Biblical definition of death. But, plenty of other verses teach
that unsaved man will be conscious in eternity future.
There are many more verses that teach these truths.
They are found, with more explanation, at the links below:
http://www.isannihilationtrue.com/death1.htm
http://www.isannihilationtrue.com/life1.htm
http://www.isannihilationtrue.com/dust1.htm
Some of the Biblical proofs of the conscious awaking
or conscious resurrection of the unsaved are given in the studies below:
http://www.isannihilationtrue.com/proofs1.htm
http://www.isannihilationtrue.com/everyknee.htm
http://www.isannihilationtrue.com/proofs2.htm
http://www.isannihilationtrue.com/eternal1.htm
This answers many of the verses that you sited.
Revelation 20:14 says that the unsaved are cast into
the lake of fire. Revelation 20:10 and 14:9-11 define the lake of fire as being
tormented (consciously) afflicted. This is the opposite of annihilation.
Revelation 20:14 is further proof that death is not a cessation of existence.
The second death is to be tormented day and night. That is not annihilation,
but agrees with the Biblical definition that death is separation from God, who
is life.
You mentioned Job 14:10-12. We read there:
10 But man dieth, and wasteth away: yea, man
giveth up the ghost, and where is he?
11 As the waters fail from the sea, and
the flood decayeth and drieth up:
12 So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the
heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their
sleep.
Regarding Job 14:10, Man dies. Yes, in fact, man has
already died. He is separated from God who is life. It is not yet a complete
separation. While he is in this world, Acts 17:28 says that he is still in God
to some degree. When his body fails, it sleeps in the dust then man is further
separated from God, the Biblical definition of death.
The phrase "wasteth away" is not very
specific. This Hebrew word is not used much. Yes, the unsaved "wasteth
away" suffering in hell like the Rich man in Luke 16.
In fact, this same Hebrew word is found in Joel 3:10
where we read:
Beat your plowshares into swords, and your
pruninghooks into spears: let the weak <02523>
say, I am strong.
In Joel 3:10 it is translated “weak” and refers to
people who exist, but may be weak or suffering in some way. Therefore, this
Hebrew word translated “wasteth away” in Job 14:10 certainly does not signify a
cessation of existence.
The phrase "giveth up the ghost" is the Hebrew
word "to die", which means to be separated from God, who is life.
Sadly, the unsaved are cut off from God and His goodness forevermore.
The Hebrew word translated "Where is he?" in
Job 4:10 is also used in Exodus 2:20:
And he said unto his daughters, And where is he? why
is it that ye have left the man? call him, that he may eat bread.
Where is Moses? Had Moses ceased to exist? No. Moses
was in another place. So, this Hebrew word does not signify annihilation.
Rather, it asks a question. The rest of the Bible answer this question, that
sadly, the unsaved are in another place, they are in hell, cut off from the
believers and from God.
Job 14:11 talks about waters. Do the waters cease to
exist? No. In fact, the word "fail" is also translated
"gone". The waters flow away, but they don't cease to exist. In the
same way, the unsaved are taken away from the believers, but they don't cease
to exist.
Job 14:12 says that the unsaved do not awake "till
the heavens be no more". When the heavens be no more, then they will
awake to consciousness. This is explained in the study below:
http://www.isannihilationtrue.com/proofs1.htm
Search for "job 14"
Several passages from the book of Job are examined
in this study:
http://www.isannihilationtrue.com/job3a.htm
You sited Psalm 52:5 which says:
God shall likewise destroy thee for ever, he shall
take thee away, and pluck thee out of thy dwelling place, and root thee
out of the land of the living. Selah.
Psalm 52:5 gives the punishment for the unsaved, to
be separated from God and His goodness. God says "he shall take thee away,
and pluck thee out of thy dwelling place, and root thee out of the land of the
living." These three phrases have to do with being separated from God and
His goodness. That is the punishment for sin. Death is separation from God who
is life.
The phrase "destroy thee for ever" could
be understood in 2 ways; a destroying that lasts for ever, or God will be
destroying thee forevermore. Deuteronomy 28:15-68 teaches that the 2nd way is
the Biblical definition of this phrase from Psalm 52:5. In Deuteronomy
28:15-68, seven times God uses a common Hebrew word translated
"destroy" to describe an on-going destroying of conscious affliction
that all of the unsaved must endure (verses 20, 24, 45, 48, 51, 61, 63). It is
Strong's number 08045. The tense of that verb in those verses is not past
tense. It is properly translated with an "ing" as
"destroying". Deuteronomy 28:15-68 has many words that signify conscious
affliction. This passage gives the Biblical definition of the
"destruction" of the unsaved. It is an on-going
"destroying" of conscious affliction.
There is more information on this passage in the
study at this link:
http://www.isannihilationtrue.com/proofs1.htm
Search for "Deuteronomy 28".
You sited Obadiah 1:16 which says:
For as ye have drunk upon my holy mountain, so
shall all the heathen drink continually, yea, they shall drink, and they shall
swallow down, and they shall be as though they had not been.
Obadiah 1:16 has a mistranslation. The Hebrew text
does not have the word "though" in it. The translators added that by
mistake. The correct literal translation is "they shall be as not they
were" or “they shall not be as they were”.
This book is talking about the unsaved people of
God. They were exalted as stars (Obadiah 1:3-4). They "were" exalted.
But, at judgment day, they will be cast down under the wrath of God. They
"shall be as not they were". They were exalted, but at judgment day,
they will be cast down under the wrath of God. They shall not be as they were.
That is what Obadiah 1:16 is teaching. The verse is explained, along with the
Hebrew text, in the study below:
http://www.isannihilationtrue.com/obadiah1.htm
Isaiah 26:14 is talking about the present condition
of the unsaved. According to the Bible, they are already dead. They are already
"deceased". The Hebrew word translated "deceased" is mostly
translated "dead" and is applied to the present state of the unsaved
in Proverbs 9:18 & 21:16:
Proverbs
9:18 But he knoweth not that the dead <07496> are there; and that
her guests are in the depths of hell.
Proverbs
21:16 The man that wandereth out of the
way of understanding shall remain in the congregation of the dead <07496>.
When God saves us He "makes us alive"
(Psalm 80:18). Then we "shall live" (John 5:25). But the non-elect
shall not live, according to John 5:25. The true believers are "raised
with Christ" (Ephesians 2:6), but the non-elect "shall not rise".
That is, they shall not be saved. They remain “under” the wrath of God. The
"destroying" points to Deuteronomy 28:15-68 as explained in the link
above.
This verse is examined phrase by phrase in the study
below:
http://www.isannihilationtrue.com/isaiah2614.htm
Let's look at Psalm 37:9-10. We read there:
9 For evildoers shall be cut off: but those
that wait upon the LORD, they shall inherit the earth.
10 For yet a little while, and the wicked shall
not be: yea, thou shalt diligently consider his place, and it shall
not be.
We read that "the wicked shall not be".
That seems pretty obvious. They are annihilated. They cease to exist.
The problem is that people do not follow the
Biblical rule to compare Scripture with Scripture and see how God uses words and
phrases in other parts of Bible. The Hebrew text translated "shall not
be" in Psalm 37:10 is translated "were not" in the phrase
"and there they were not" in 1 Samuel 9:4:
And he passed through mount Ephraim, and passed
through the land of Shalisha, but they found them not: then they passed through
the land of Shalim, and there they
were not: and he passed through the land of the Benjamites, but they found them
not.
The word "there" is not in the Hebrew
text". The Hebrew simply says "they were not" referring to the
donkeys of Saul's father. Those donkeys still existed but "they were
not" in the sense that they were not in that place. The translators added
the "there" for clarification, but the Hebrew text is the same as
"the wicked shall not be" in Psalm 37:10. This Hebrew word has no
tense, so sometimes the translators use future tense and sometimes they use
past tense. But, the spelling in the two passages is identical. There are other
verses in the Bible that use this same Hebrew word to describe something that
still exists, but in another place.
In the last part of Psalm 37:10 it says concerning
the place of the unsaved that "it shall not be". This Hebrew word,
with the same spelling is found in Genesis 5:24:
And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God
took him.
Enoch "was not". It is not that Enoch
ceased to exist, but rather that he "was not" because God took him
from the earth.
This is the context of Psalm 37:9-11. The unsaved
will be cut off from God's goodness that is in the earth. But, the meek will
inherit the earth with God's goodness. These kinds of verses are examined in
the study below:
http://www.isannihilationtrue.com/arenot1.htm
This study gives other verses with the same Hebrew
words that show that these words do not signify annihilation.
You sited Psalm 6:5. We read there:
For in death there is no remembrance of thee:
in the grave who shall give thee thanks?
Regarding Psalm 6:5, the unsaved in this world, the
dead, don't remember God. That is true. They are focused upon their own will
and desires. The true believers remember God in prayer and in reading His word.
The word "grave" in that verse is also frequently
translated "hell" and used in these 3 verses / passages that identify
hell with conscious affliction:
Psalms
116:3 The sorrows of death compassed me,
and the pains of hell <07585> gat hold
upon me: I found trouble and sorrow.
Isaiah
28:15-18:
15 Because ye have said, We have made a covenant
with death, and with hell <07585> are we
at agreement; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, it shall not
come unto us: for we have made lies our refuge, and under falsehood have we hid
ourselves:
16 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, I
lay in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tried stone, a precious corner stone, a
sure foundation: he that believeth shall not make haste.
17 Judgment also will I lay to the line, and
righteousness to the plummet: and the hail shall sweep away the refuge of lies,
and the waters shall overflow the hiding place.
18 And your covenant with death shall be
disannulled, and your agreement with hell <07585>
shall not stand; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, then ye shall
be trodden down by it.
Jonah
2:2 And said, I cried by reason of mine
affliction unto the LORD, and he heard me; out of the belly of hell <07585> cried I, and thou heardest my voice.
So, God identifies this Hebrew word with conscious
affliction. When the unsaved are suffering in hell, they will not be giving God
thanks, as we read in Psalm 6:5.
There is more information on this subject in the
link below:
http://www.isannihilationtrue.com/grave1.htm
The reason God uses the same Hebrew word frequently
for hell and the grave is because when unsaved man's body fails and sleeps in
the dust and is put in the grave, the next thing for that man is to suffer in
hell. This is shown with the rich man in Luke 16:19-31. This is explained in
more detail in the study at this link:
http://www.isannihilationtrue.com/luke16a.htm
You sited Isaiah 38:18. We read there:
For the grave cannot praise thee, death can not
celebrate thee: they that go down into the pit cannot hope for thy truth.
The explanation of Isaiah 38:18 is similar to that
for Psalm 6:5. The word "grave" there is the same Hebrew word,
"sheol" that is translated "hell" and identified with
conscious affliction in the three verses given above. The unsaved in hell will
not be praising God. In addition, the unsaved in this world are already dead.
They do not celebrate God. The pit identifies with being "cast down"
under the wrath of God. Before salvation, the elect were down under the wrath
of God but when God saves someone, he is "raised up" as we read in Ephesians
2:6. God has not moved either our body or our spirit upward. Rather, we were
"raised up" in our standing with God. The same figure applies to the
"pit". The unsaved will be "cast down" into the pit, in the
sense that they are cast away from God, under His wrath.
Ecclesiastes 3:18-20 applies to both believers and
unbelievers. The bodies of both return to the dust and we have to give up what
we had in this world. The difference is that the true believers will have a
better resurrection. This is taught in Ecclesiastes 2:15-19:
15 Then said I in my heart, As it happeneth to
the fool, so it happeneth even to me; and why was I then more wise? Then I said
in my heart, that this also is vanity.
16 For there is no remembrance of the wise more
than of the fool for ever; seeing that which now is in the days to come shall
all be forgotten. And how dieth the wise man? as the fool.
17
¶ Therefore I hated life; because the work that is wrought under the sun is grievous
unto me: for all is vanity and vexation of spirit.
18 Yea, I hated all my labour which I had taken
under the sun: because I should leave it unto the man that shall be after me.
19 And who knoweth whether he shall be a wise
man or a fool? yet shall he have rule over all my labour wherein I have
laboured, and wherein I have shewed myself wise under the sun. This is also
vanity.
Notice that verses 15-16 apply to both the saved and
the unsaved, the wise and the fool. A big theme of Ecclesiastes is that
anything that anyone has of this world finally is lost. This is true for the saved
and the unsaved. Finally, we must all give up anything that we had of this
world. These verses are talked about in the study at this link:
http://www.isannihilationtrue.com/psalm49a.htm
Ecclesiastes 3:18-21 is covered near the end of the
study.
You also sited Psalm 49:12, 20 which say:
12 Nevertheless man being in honour abideth not:
he is like the beasts that perish.
20 Man that is in honour, and understandeth not,
is like the beasts that perish.
People read these verses and assume that the unsaved
perish like beasts in every way. Let's consider another verse that talks
about how man is "like" something else. We read in Psalm 1:3:
And he shall be like a tree planted by the rivers of
water, that bringeth forth his fruit in his season; his leaf also shall not
wither; and whatsoever he doeth shall prosper.
The true believer is like a "tree planted by
the rivers of water". Is he like a tree planted by water in every way?
No.
The true believer is made in the image of God but
the tree is not. The true believer will be with God forevermore, but the tree
will not. The true believer has a spirit, the tree does not. The true believer
is like a tree in some ways, but not in every way.
This is also true for the unsaved in Psalm 49:12,
20. They are like the beasts in some ways, but not in every way. The context of
Psalm 49 is that the beasts and the unsaved lose everything they had in this
world. We read in verse 11:
Their inward thought is, that their houses shall
continue for ever, and their dwelling places to all generations; they call
their lands after their own names.
Man thinks that he will be able to hold onto this
world in some way, like by naming lands after himself. But, like the beasts, he
loses all that he had in this world.
But, the unsaved are not like the beasts in every
way. The unsaved are made in the image of God, the beasts are not. The unsaved
have a spirit, the beasts do not. The unsaved will awake to consciousness, the
beasts do not (Daniel 12:2).
So, Psalm 1:3 and many other verses teach that the
word "like" means there is some connection between 2 items, but not a
complete connection. Psalm 49 does not teach that the unsaved perish like the
beast in every way. Otherwise Psalm 1:3 would be teaching that the saved are
like a tree in every way. But, this is not true. There is more information on
this subject in the study below:
http://www.isannihilationtrue.com/psalm49a.htm
Jeremiah 51:57 says that the unsaved "shall sleep
a perpetual sleep, and not wake," The unsaved are already asleep according
to Isaiah 29:10-12:
10 For the LORD hath poured out upon you the
spirit of deep sleep, and hath closed your eyes: the prophets and your rulers,
the seers hath he covered.
11 And the vision of all is become unto you as
the words of a book that is sealed, which men deliver to one that is learned,
saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I cannot; for it is sealed:
12 And the book is delivered to him that is not
learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I am not learned.
God also teaches that the unsaved already are
"asleep" in these verses:
Isaiah
56:10 His watchmen are blind: they are
all ignorant, they are all dumb dogs, they cannot bark; sleeping, lying down,
loving to slumber.
1
Thessalonians 5:4-8
4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that
that day should overtake you as a thief.
5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children
of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.
6
¶ Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.
7 For they that sleep sleep in the night; and
they that be drunken are drunken in the night.
8 But let us, who are of the day, be sober,
putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of
salvation.
Ephesians
5:14 Wherefore he saith, Awake thou that
sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light.
God uses the word "sleep" to indicate a
lack of consciousness to something, but not necessarily a total lack of consciousness.
The unsaved are already "asleep" to the truths of the Bible. Jeremiah
51:57 teaches that they will remain unconscious to the truths of the Bible forevermore.
But, that does not mean they that won't have any consciousness. They already
sleep, yet they have consciousness. There is more on this subject in the study
at this link:
http://www.isannihilationtrue.com/jer51a.htm
Isaiah 33:14 is more of a proof a perpetual
suffering. We read there:
The sinners in Zion are afraid; fearfulness hath
surprised the hypocrites. Who among us shall dwell with the devouring fire? who
among us shall dwell with everlasting burnings?
The unsaved are afraid of dwelling in devouring fire
and everlasting burnings. This refers to the lake of fire. The lake of fire
cannot be an earthly fire because those that are cast into it are
"tormented day and night" (Revelation 20:10). Anyone cast into an
earthly fire will go unconscious in a few seconds or minutes. One cannot be "tormented
day and night" in an earthly fire. They will go unconscious very quickly
in an earthly fire.
Also, the Greek word "torment" is never
used to refer to being burned by an earthly fire. It is used to refer to a
woman's labor pains (Revelation 12:2), hearing Bible truth that you don't like
(Revelation 11:10), seeing the sinfulness of others (2 Peter 2:8), suffering from
diseases (Matthew 8:6), etc. It is never used to refer to being burned with an
earthly fire. For these two reasons, we can know that the lake of fire has
nothing to do with an earthly burning up of the corpses of the unsaved. This is
discussed in the study at this link:
http://www.isannihilationtrue.com/lakeoffire1.htm
Don't forget: Christ spoke in parables (Mark
4:33-34). Also, we have to compare Scripture with Scripture to come to truth.
God defines words by how He uses them.
Rather, the lake of fire has to do with suffer the
wrath of God, God Himself being a consuming fire (Hebrews 12:29). It has
nothing to do with an earthly fire. So when we read verses about the unsaved
being "burned up" or being "devoured with fire", God is not
talking about the burning up of corpses. Rather God is talking about an
on-going conscious affliction given by the language of being "tormented
day and night". Isaiah 33:14 talks about the unsaved "dwelling"
in those fires. That is language of an on-going existence.
You sited Ezekiel 22:20-22. This passage talks about
melting the unsaved, like melting silver, brass, iron and lead. If you put a
corpse into a furnace with those metals, will it melt? No. It will not melt.
The metals will melt, but the corpse will burn up. This shows us that this
passage must be understood as a parable. We have to remember that Christ spoke
in parables.
Psalm 21:8-9 says the fire shall devour the unsaved.
As explained above, the lake of fire cannot be an earthly fire. One is not
consciously afflicted day and night in an earthly fire. Those cast into an
earthly fire go unconscious in a few seconds or minutes. The fire of Psalm
21:8-9 and other verses is the on-going conscious affliction of the lake of
fire.
You sited Malachi 4:1. Let's look at verse 3. We
read in Malachi 4:3:
And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be
ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the
LORD of hosts.
This verse says that the saved will walk on the
ashes of the unsaved. When are the saved going to walk on the ashes of the
unsaved with their feet? That will not happen.
The saved will be raptured and taken to heaven. They
will never walk on the ashes of the unsaved. If we don't understand that Christ
spoke in parables we cannot come to truth in the Bible. Malachi 4:1-3 is
written in parabolic language.
In verse 1, we read that the wrath of God "shall
burn them up". The "up" was added by the translators. It does
not belong there. Yes, Christ spoke in parables. The lake of fire will
"burn" the unsaved. God is the fire (Hebrews 12:29). God is not an
earthly fire, but His wrath is represented by fire. As shown in the study
before, the words "root" and "branch" are used in the Bible
to refer to the believers and Christ. This means that when the unsaved are
suffering in the lake of fire, Christ will not be there to save them from it. Also,
the believers will not be there to bring a Gospel that might save them. This
verse is examined in the study below:
http://www.isannihilationtrue.com/malachi4a.htm
You sited Isaiah 33:12. Isaiah 33:12 says that the
unsaved will "be burned in the fire.". That ties into the lake of
fire. The lake of fire does not teach annihilation, but rather on-going
conscious affliction; "tormented day and night".
God is life. Man loses life because He loses God who
is life.
You sited 2 Thessalonians 1:9 which says "Who
shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord,
and from the glory of his power;". God defines the word
"destruction" in Deuteronomy 28:15-68 as an on going conscious
affliction.
The word "passeth away" in Psalm 144:4 is
just the word to "pass over" from one place to another. For example
it is used in Genesis 12:6 to talk about Abram passing from one place to another.
This is a problem with the connotation in English that we have for the phrase
"pass away". We think it means to cease to exist. But, that word in the
Bible means to go from one place to another. Unsaved man spends his days in
this world and then does not have anymore blessing from God, but He passes over
to the lake of fire, away from God's goodness.
In Job 34:15 the word "perish" is the word
"to die". Man has already died, that is he has become separated from
God, who is life. Right now, he still has God to some degree according to Acts 17:28.
However, when he is cast into the lake of fire, he will be completely separated
from God, who is life. That is the Biblical definition of death.
The bodies of all men return to the dust; they sleep
in the dust. However, the shall awake to consciousness (Daniel 12:2). This is
shown in the study at this link:
http://www.isannihilationtrue.com/proofs1.htm
Yes, Psalm 9:17 says that the unsaved will be turned
to hell. This same word hell is used in Psalm 116:3, Isaiah 28:15-18 and Jonah
2:2 to refer to conscious affliction, as given above. There is more information
on this subject in the study at this link:
http://www.isannihilationtrue.com/grave1.htm
Regarding Psalm 1:4, remember that Christ spoke in
parables. The unsaved are not literally chaff. The wind represents the Spirit
of God that drives them away from the true believers and into the lake of fire.
We read in Psalm 1:3:
And he shall be like a tree planted by the rivers of
water, that bringeth forth his fruit in his season; his leaf also shall not
wither; and whatsoever he doeth shall prosper.
The true believers are not literally trees, but are
represented by trees. The true believers are not literally "like a tree
planted". Trees are planted in the ground of dirt. Believers are not
planted in the ground of dirt. Rather, Christ spoke in parables to teach Gospel
truth.
Chaff in Psalm 1:4 is something that you do not
desire. You desire the wheat. The chaff is driven away by the wind. It does not
cease to exist, but rather is driven away. Likewise, the unsaved are not
desired by God. They are cast away from God into the lake of fire. But, they do
not cease to exist.
You sited Ecclesiastes 9:5. We read there:
For the living know that they shall die: but the dead
know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them
is forgotten.
Regarding Ecclesiastes 9:5, the phrase "dead
know not any thing" makes people think that the unsaved don't exist anymore,
but like all phrases, we have to check this one out in the Bible to understand
what God means by it. The "dead" are the unsaved, that are already
dead, separated from God who is life. The phrase "know not any thing"
is a 2 word phrase in the Hebrew language. The same 2 word Hebrew phrase is
found in Genesis 39:6:
And he left all that he had in Joseph’s hand; and he
knew not ought he had, save the bread which he did eat. And Joseph was a goodly
person, and well favoured.
It is the phrase "he knew not ought". This
is talking about Potiphar who "knew not ought" that he had except the
bread that he ate. This does not mean that Potiphar had no consciousness of his
house or servants. Rather, because Joseph was running things so well, Potiphar
did not put any attention or know any of the details of anything in his house,
except his food. This is what God means by this phrase in Ecclesiastes 9:5. The
unsaved that are cast away from God into the lake of fire will no longer know
about any hope that they had in this world. Hope is a focus of the previous
verse. Ecclesiastes 9:5 is not teaching that the unsaved don't have any
consciousness, just like Genesis 39:6 is not teaching that Potiphar did not
have any consciousness of his house or servants. Rather, those cast into the
lake of fire, have lost all hope of salvation that is available now in this
world. They have lost any connection with the blessings that they had in the
earth.
The unsaved have lost the "reward" of God's
blessings. Being forgotten by God means that God does not hear your prayers for
help or anything else. This is shown by these two passages and other passages:
Psalm
13:1-2:
1
¶ <<To the chief Musician, A Psalm of David.>> How long wilt thou
forget me, O LORD? for ever? how long wilt thou hide thy face from me?
2 How long shall I take counsel in my soul,
having sorrow in my heart daily? how long shall mine enemy be exalted over me?
Psalm
42:9: I will say unto God my rock, Why hast thou forgotten me? why go I
mourning because of the oppression of the enemy?
In both passages, the Psalmist complains about being
forgotten by God because God is not responding to his prayers. The Psalmist
still exists, but God has "forgotten" to answer his cries for help.
This is covered in more detail in this study:
http://www.isannihilationtrue.com/forgotten.htm
There is a study that specifically examines Ecclesiastes
9.5. The link is:
http://www.isannihilationtrue.com/eccl9v5a.htm
You mentioned babies. In our minds we think babies
are innocent. However, God has a different perspective. He sees the heart. We
read in Psalm 58:3
The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray
as soon as they be born, speaking lies.
The Psalm goes on from there with a lot of negative
language. There are many other passages like this. We don't see the sin, but
God sees the heart and the heart of man is sinful from the womb, according to
the Bible. There is more information on this subject at the link:
http://www.isannihilationtrue.com/babies1.htm
Revelation 21:8 supports conscious affliction for
the unsaved. Because those cast into the lake of fire are tormented
(consciously afflicted) day and night. As explained, it cannot be an earthly
fire. The criteria of Revelation 21:8 includes all of the unsaved throughout
time, from Cain unto today. They will all have a part of that lake of fire described
in Revelation 14:9-11, 20:10 and other parts of the Bible.
You mentioned that Psalm 136:20 talks about God’s
mercy towards the unsaved. Psalm 136:20 says "And Og the king of Bashan:
for his mercy endureth for ever:"
That was not God's mercy for king Og. It is not a
mercy of God to be slain. Adam and Eve were slain the day they sinned (Genesis
2:17, Romans 7:9 11). That was not God's mercy, but God's judgment upon them.
The slaying of king Og was not God's mercy for king
Og, but it was God's mercy for His people.
It is God's mercy for His people in that He removes
the unsaved from the land that He is going to give to His people. God gave the land
of Canaan and surrounding lands to His people. Part of God's mercy to Israel
was to remove the sinful inhabitants of the land so that these people would not
trouble Israel. That was God's mercy to His people, not to King Og. Slaying
king Og was not a mercy to King Og, but a judgment.
The Bible teaches that at Judgment Day there will be
no mercy of God upon the unsaved. We read that in the following verses:
James
2:13 For he shall have judgment without
mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.
Psalms
59:5 Thou therefore, O LORD God of
hosts, the God of Israel, awake to visit all the heathen: be not merciful to
any wicked transgressors. Selah.
Psalms
109:12 Let there be none to extend mercy
unto him: neither let there be any to favour his fatherless children.
Isaiah
9:17 Therefore the Lord shall have no joy
in their young men, neither shall have mercy on their fatherless and widows:
for every one is an hypocrite and an evildoer, and every mouth speaketh folly.
For all this his anger is not turned away, but his hand is stretched out still.
Isaiah
27:11 When the boughs thereof are
withered, they shall be broken off: the women come, and set them on fire: for
it is a people of no understanding: therefore he that made them will not have
mercy on them, and he that formed them will shew them no favour.
Jeremiah
13:14 And I will dash them one against
another, even the fathers and the sons together, saith the LORD: I will not
pity, nor spare, nor have mercy, but destroy them.
Hosea
1:6 And she conceived again, and bare a
daughter. And God said unto him, Call her name Loruhamah: for I will no more have
mercy upon the house of Israel; but I will utterly take them away.
Hosea
2:4 And I will not have mercy upon her
children; for they be the children of whoredoms.
Each of those verses teach that there is no mercy of
God towards the unsaved at Judgment Day. There are more verses like this.
There are no verses that teach that God has mercy
upon the unsaved at Judgment Day. Psalm 136 is not teaching God's mercy to king
Og or to the Egyptians or to any of the unsaved. Rather, what God did to those
people was His mercy towards His people. God cut off the Egyptians so that
Israel could be free. God wiped out the inhabitants of the land of Canaan so
that Israel could have that land free of those people. There is more on the
subject of God’s mercy at Judgment Day in the study at this link:
http://www.isannihilationtrue.com/mercy1.htm
You talked about those who "desire"
eternal torment for the unsaved. I do not desire that and don't know anyone who
does. Most everyone would prefer that the Bible teaches annihilation. It also
seems reasonable in many ways. However, there is no benefit in believing what
we want to believe or what we think is reasonable. God will carry out the truth
of the Bible despite what the majority of the Christian community believes. Most
of the Christian community has basically eliminated the threat of hell in one way
or another. But, that does not change the truth of the Bible.
Thank
you for the feedback.
I don't know what church you are attending, but they nearly all teach what
you are teaching! They loveth and maketh a lie! Many of your comments
about death cannot be supported by the whole Bible! The soul that sinneth
it shall die.
Eze 18:4 Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also
the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.
Eze 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the
iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son:
the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the
wicked shall be upon him.
The body and the soul ceases of all life at death! The Second Death guarantees
no wicked will be in existence because there will be no more day and night!
All suffering ceases when the New Heavens and New earth are created! No
more sun because the Father is the light.
And I know you will not see this, unless God opens your eyes and also I have no
time to continue in fruitless debates. Time is so short! 30 days left!
May God have mercy on us!
I
don't go to any church. Many churches have eliminated hell; like the Mormons,
Jehovah Witnesses and Seventh Day Adventist. I have family members that go to evangelical
churches and follow the writings of many evangelical church leaders. They have
given me some of their writings. Many of them have also eliminated hell as a
threat. So, there are many churches that now teach what you believe.
You
said "Many of your comments about death cannot be supported by the whole
Bible!". I have given you many verses and pointed you to studies with many
more verses that support my comments about death. You have not provided any
verses that refute my statements.
Ezekiel
18:4 & 20 were fulfilled for Adam and Eve the day that they sinned. Also,
the whole human race has sinned and has already died. I gave you many verses
that teach this. The Bible teaches that man in this world is still alive because
He has God who is life. But, when his body fails, he is cut off from God and
from this world, which is the Biblical definition of death.
You
said "The body and the soul ceases of all life at death!". The Bible teaches
that the body and soul are already dead. I gave you verses that teach this. The
Bible defines the "second death" as being cast into the lake of fire which
is to be "tormented", a conscious affliction. So, the Bible defines
the "second death" as conscious affliction, not as annihilation. This
agrees with the Biblical definition that death is separation from God who is
life.
Yes,
the body and soul cease of life because God is life (John 11:25, 14:6). The
unsaved are completely cut off from God and His blessings in eternity future.
Regarding
the phrase "day and night", the Bible teaches that Christ spoke in parables
and without a parable He did not speak (Mark 4:33-34). God uses figures of the
time keepers of this world to speak about things in eternity future. For
example, we read in Isaiah 66:22-24:
22
For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain
before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.
23
And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one
sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.
24
And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have
transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire
be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.
Verse
22 sets the context as talking about the new heavens and the new earth. In
verse 23, the phrase "from one new moon to another" in the Hebrew is literally
"from new moon to new moon", and the phrase "from one sabbath to
another" is literally "from sabbath to sabbath". A new moon was
about 29 days or 29 day and night cycles. From sabbath to sabbath was 7 day and
night cycles. In Isaiah 66:22-24, God uses time keepers from this world to talk
about eternity future.
The
same thing is used in Zechariah 14:16-17 to talk about the Feast of Tabernacles
being celebrated from year to year in the new heavens and new earth. We read
there:
16 ¶ And it shall come to pass, that
every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall
even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to
keep the feast of tabernacles.
17
And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the
families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts,
even upon them shall be no rain.
The
phrase "year to year" is another reference to the time keepers of
this world applied to eternity future, like "day and night", is used
to talk about eternity future.
We
read in Isaiah 34:9-10:
9 ¶ And the streams thereof shall be
turned into pitch, and the dust thereof into brimstone, and the land thereof
shall become burning pitch.
10
It shall not be quenched night nor day; the smoke thereof shall go up
for ever: from generation to generation it shall lie waste; none shall pass
through it for ever and ever.
In
Isaiah 34:10 God talks about the fires of God's wrath not being quenched "day
and night". We know from other parts of the Bible that those fires will not
be quenched forevermore (Mark 9:43-48). Isaiah 34:10 tells us that the fires of
God’s wrath will not be quenched “day and night” and that goes on forevermore.
Putting the truths together, we learn that the fires of God’s wrath shall not
be quenched “day and night for ever and ever”.
We
read in Revelation 7:15-17:
15
Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night
in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.
16
They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the
sun light on them, nor any heat.
17
For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and
shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all
tears from their eyes.
Revelation
7:15 talks about "day and night" in heaven. The subject matter of Revelation
7:15-17 goes on forevermore. So, if we study the Bible we find that God uses
the figure "day and night", like other time keepers of this world, to
speak of things that go on forevermore. So, the term "day and night"
does not limit the subject to this world's existence. There is more information
on this subject in the study:
http://www.isannihilationtrue.com/dayandnight.htm
You
said "All suffering ceases when the New Heavens and New earth are
created!". The Bible does not teach this. You have not provided any verses
that support this. The Bible teaches that there is no suffering for the true
believers, but does not make this promise for the unsaved. The Father is the light
for the true believers.
Thank
you for the feedback.
This destruction of man is permanent and once again we find that the focus
of the punishment is on our loss of eternal life with God: “Who shall be
punished with everlasting destruction G3639 from the presence of the Lord,
and from the glory of his power” (2 Thessalonians 1:9)
Notice those who are punished with everlasting destruction, is also FROM
the GLORY of HIS POWER also! Now if they are everlasting destroyed, then
of course also are removed from the Glory of HIS POWER! Without the power of
God to sustain them they would surely cease to exist! When day and night ceases
then so does torment!
G3639 ὄλεθρος olethros
(ol'-eth-ros) n.
1. ruin, i.e. death, punishment
[from a primary ollumi "to destroy" (a prolonged form)]
KJV: destruction
1 Tim 6:9 But they that will be rich fall into temptation and a
snare, and into many foolish and hurtful lusts, which drown men in destruction G3639 and
perdition G684
G684 ἀπώλεια
apoleia (ap-o'-lei-a) n.
1. destruction, ruin or loss (physical, spiritual or eternal)
[from a presumed derivative of G622]
KJV: damnable(-nation), destruction, die, perdition, X perish, pernicious
ways, waste
Root(s): G622
2 Peter 2:12 But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and
destroyed G5356 speak evil of the things that they understand not;
and shall utterly perish G2704 in their own corruption;
G5356 φθορά phthora
(fthor-ah') n.
1. decay, i.e. ruin (spontaneous or inflicted)
{literally or figuratively}
[from G5351]
KJV: corruption, destroy, perish
Root(s): G5351
G2704 καταφθείρω kataphtheiro (kat-af-thei'-ro) v.
1. to spoil entirely
2. (literally) to destroy
3. (figuratively) to deprave
[from G2596 and G5351]
KJV: corrupt, utterly perish
Root(s): G2596, G5351
Please do a research on all of these scriptures dealing with destroy, destruction,
perish; and if you are still inclined to believe in eternal torment, then may
God save you from it. I haven't the time to continue in this fruitless
endeavour, but must continue warning of Christ's return! May 21, 2011!
May God have mercy!
Those
definitions that you sited were written by men. They are not that helpful in understanding
what God means by the words, "destroy", "perish", "perdition",
etc.. When we see the word "destruction" or similar words we think of
something like a child destroying a toy. But, God defines words by how He uses
them in the Bible.
God
defines what He means by the "destruction" of the unsaved in Deuteronomy
28:15-68. It is a long passage, so God gives a lot of figures that define the
destruction or destroying of the unsaved. A common word for "destroy",
H08045 is used 7 times in this passage, verses 20, 24, 45, 48, 51, 61 & 63.
For example, it is used in Deuteronomy 28:48:
Therefore
shalt thou serve thine enemies which the LORD shall send against thee, in
hunger, and in thirst, and in nakedness, and in want of all things: and he
shall put a yoke of iron upon thy neck, until he have destroyed <08045> thee.
We
read words of conscious affliction in this verse and in other verses in this
passage. The tense of H08045 in these 7 verses is not past tense. It is most properly
translated with an "ing" as in "until he be destroying
thee".
Deuteronomy
28:15-68 gives the Biblical definition of the destruction or the destroying of
the unsaved. It is an on-going destroying of conscious affliction. Verse 15
applies this to all the unsaved throughout time, anyone who sins. A detailed
study of this passage is at this link:
http://www.isannihilationtrue.com/proofs1.htm
Search
for "Deuteronomy 28".
We
think that "destruction=annihilation", but the Bible defines it
differently. We have to get our definitions from the Bible.
You
said "the punishment is on our loss of eternal life with God"
The
Bible teaches that God Himself is "eternal life" as we read in 1 John
5:20:
And we know
that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may
know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus
Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.
Jesus
Christ is God who is "eternal life" according to this verse. So, the unsaved
lose "eternal life" because they are separated from God, who is
"eternal life". The punishment for sin is that we lose God Himself.
We spend eternity without God and His blessings. That is what Deuteronomy
28:15-68 describes.
You
said "Without the power of God to sustain them they would surely cease to
exist".
That
statement is not supported by the Bible.
Unsaved
man in the lake of fire is without God in any way. His suffering is described
in Deuteronomy 28:15-68.
You
sited G684 which has a root of G622. G622 is found in these verses:
Matthew 10:6 But go rather to the lost <622> sheep of the house of Israel.
Matthew 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but
unto the lost <622> sheep of the house
of Israel.
Matthew 18:11 For the Son of man is come to save that which
was lost <622>.
Luke 15:4 What man of you, having an hundred sheep, if
he lose <622> one of them, doth not
leave the ninety and nine in the wilderness, and go after that which is lost <622>, until he find it?
Luke 15:6 And when he cometh home, he calleth together
his friends and neighbours, saying unto them, Rejoice with me; for I have found
my sheep which was lost <622>.
Luke 15:24 For this my son was dead, and is alive again;
he was lost <622>, and is found. And
they began to be merry.
Luke 15:32 It was meet that we should make merry, and be
glad: for this thy brother was dead, and is alive again; and was lost <622>, and is found.
This
is a word that is often translated "perish" or "destroy".
In these verses it is translated "lost" and is in the past tense. It describes
the present condition of the unsaved in this world. The unsaved in this world
have not ceased to exist nor have they been annihilated. But they are already
"lost" or "perished" or "destroyed" to use the
language of the Bible and G622. That is because they are separated from God,
who is life.
Luke
15:24 & 32 are the most helpful verses because they contrast this verb to
being "found". Upon salvation, we are made alive, we are no longer "destroyed"
nor "perished" nor "lost". We have been found by God and joined
with Him, because He has come to indwell us.
This
is explained more in the study at this link:
http://www.isannihilationtrue.com/manywords.htm
Separation
from God and it's associated suffering is the Biblical definition of
"death", "perished" and "destruction".
You
said "When day and night ceases then so does torment"
Does
the Bible teach this?
Christ
spoke in parables and He uses time references from this world to speak about
eternity future. The Hebrew of Isaiah 66:23 has the phrases "from sabbath
to sabbath" and "from new moon to new moon" to speak of eternity
future (verse 22). Those are references to the time keepers of this world that
are applied to eternity future.
Also,
God talks about keeping the Feast of Tabernacles "from year to year" in
eternity future in Zechariah 14:16.
So,
God does apply time keepers from this world to speak of eternity future. So, the
presence of a reference to a time keeper from this world, like "day and
night", does not limit the duration to this world
Also,
we read in Isaiah 34:9-10:
9 ¶ And the streams thereof shall be
turned into pitch, and the dust thereof into brimstone, and the land thereof
shall become burning pitch.
10
It shall not be quenched night nor day; the smoke thereof shall go up
for ever: from generation to generation it shall lie waste; none shall pass
through it for ever and ever.
In
verse 10 God talks about the fires of the wrath of God that are not "quenched
night nor day". We know from Mark 9 and other verses that the fires of
God's wrath are not quenched forevermore. So, they are not quenched night nor
day forevermore.
God
uses the phrase "day and night" to talk about something that goes on forevermore.
So, if we follow Biblical rules for study, we learn that the phrase "day
and night" does not limit duration to this world's existence. There is
more information in the study at this link:
http://www.isannihilationtrue.com/dayandnight.htm
You
said "Please do a research on all of these scriptures dealing with
destroy, destruction, perish"
I
have some studies with many verses that examine how these words are used in the
Bible at these link:
http://www.isannihilationtrue.com/manywords.htm
http://www.isannihilationtrue.com/kalah1.htm
Thank
you.